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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:41 pm 
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You're just jealous

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:14 pm
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Just drill a couple of holes through the transom and mount a drink holder. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:46 pm 
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I HATE hatchbacks!

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 11818
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Looks like a perfect home for a LS1!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Got Powah?
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 4724
If anyone is interested in the continuing saga...

I went out yesterday to do some fuel system testing to see if I could figure out why the boat isn't working well at WOT. Went out intentionally low on fuel (should have been about 5 gallons but I later remembered that I had pumped at least 2 out at home testing the fuel pump, so it was more like 3!) -- ended up running out of gas about 1/4 mile from the pumps I was on the way to. Added the one gallon of gas I had brought (just in case!!) but it turns out 1 gallon isn't enough when the boat's flat! Got a tow from a nice family passing by, fuel up, and ... spent the rest of the day trying to get the boat to start. Starting fluid, gas poured down the carb, full thottle, part throttle ... nothing at all would get it to start. Spark was good.

Now I should mention that it has been starting harder and harder since I bought it. My fuel tests have mostly ruled out delivery problems -- 7psi, no air bubbles, etc -- so it's on to the carb.

After another tow back to the docks (I just got repaid the 2 tows I gave other people) and back at home this morning, it started (of course) perfectly fine. I was assuming that the engine wasn't getting any fuel, but now I have to believe that the engine was flooding. The weird thing is that the plugs were not fuel soaked at the lake. So it's a theory.

Spent most of the day learning everything I can about Holley carbs. Now there shouldn't be any problems with it, since the previous owner had just spent $800 having it rebuild along with some other stuff.

Well guess what? The mechanic was an idiot.

Problem #1 -- The accelerator pump outlet was turned 90 sideways and pushing all the fuel into one barrel.

Problem #2 -- the linkage on the choke was installed incorrectly. There is a little plastic tab which rotates on the choke shaft, with a little brass insert in the end to keep it down. This is supposed to be the weight which keeps the choke open to the coil-set limit (instead of a spring). The choke lever is supposed to be under this (weight pushing down), but it was on top so the weight was actually limiting how far the choke could open. So it was maybe going to 2/3 or 3/4 open.

Problem #3 -- Carb had the wrong power valve -- 4.5 instead of factory 2.5. Probably doesn't matter for the starting issue since it's only supposed to open in the absence of vacuum at WOT. So the 2.5 won't open until closer to full throttle ... which could help explain the WOT issues I have been having. Luckily the previous owner gave me the old valve, which looks like it's working fine (not blown or leaking) so I put it back in.

Problem #4 -- The power valve had *two* gaskets under it and one of them was torn. I figured out that the engine was getting flooded whenever the pump was on because I took the carb off, attached the fuel line, jumpered the fuel pump on, and held the carb horizontal over my head. Fuel started dripping out of the power valve port between the barrels on the bottom of the carb.

So I'm nearly convinced now that my hard starting, excessive fuel consumption, and rich running must have been due to this basically partially-open power valve at all rpms due to the tear. Probably worst at idle and startup when vacuum is high.

It runs *so* much better in the driveway after fixing these 4 problems -- I can't wait to get it out and see if I possibly fixed the WOT problems too...

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:15 am
Posts: 195
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
MikeWhitney wrote:
If anyone is interested in the continuing saga...

I went out yesterday to do some fuel system testing to see if I could figure out why the boat isn't working well at WOT. Went out intentionally low on fuel (should have been about 5 gallons but I later remembered that I had pumped at least 2 out at home testing the fuel pump, so it was more like 3!) -- ended up running out of gas about 1/4 mile from the pumps I was on the way to. Added the one gallon of gas I had brought (just in case!!) but it turns out 1 gallon isn't enough when the boat's flat! Got a tow from a nice family passing by, fuel up, and ... spent the rest of the day trying to get the boat to start. Starting fluid, gas poured down the carb, full thottle, part throttle ... nothing at all would get it to start. Spark was good.

Now I should mention that it has been starting harder and harder since I bought it. My fuel tests have mostly ruled out delivery problems -- 7psi, no air bubbles, etc -- so it's on to the carb.

After another tow back to the docks (I just got repaid the 2 tows I gave other people) and back at home this morning, it started (of course) perfectly fine. I was assuming that the engine wasn't getting any fuel, but now I have to believe that the engine was flooding. The weird thing is that the plugs were not fuel soaked at the lake. So it's a theory.

Spent most of the day learning everything I can about Holley carbs. Now there shouldn't be any problems with it, since the previous owner had just spent $800 having it rebuild along with some other stuff.

Well guess what? The mechanic was an idiot.

Problem #1 -- The accelerator pump outlet was turned 90 sideways and pushing all the fuel into one barrel.

Problem #2 -- the linkage on the choke was installed incorrectly. There is a little plastic tab which rotates on the choke shaft, with a little brass insert in the end to keep it down. This is supposed to be the weight which keeps the choke open to the coil-set limit (instead of a spring). The choke lever is supposed to be under this (weight pushing down), but it was on top so the weight was actually limiting how far the choke could open. So it was maybe going to 2/3 or 3/4 open.

Problem #3 -- Carb had the wrong power valve -- 4.5 instead of factory 2.5. Probably doesn't matter for the starting issue since it's only supposed to open in the absence of vacuum at WOT. So the 2.5 won't open until closer to full throttle ... which could help explain the WOT issues I have been having. Luckily the previous owner gave me the old valve, which looks like it's working fine (not blown or leaking) so I put it back in.

Problem #4 -- The power valve had *two* gaskets under it and one of them was torn. I figured out that the engine was getting flooded whenever the pump was on because I took the carb off, attached the fuel line, jumpered the fuel pump on, and held the carb horizontal over my head. Fuel started dripping out of the power valve port between the barrels on the bottom of the carb.

So I'm nearly convinced now that my hard starting, excessive fuel consumption, and rich running must have been due to this basically partially-open power valve at all rpms due to the tear. Probably worst at idle and startup when vacuum is high.

It runs *so* much better in the driveway after fixing these 4 problems -- I can't wait to get it out and see if I possibly fixed the WOT problems too...


Blah, blah, blah. When are you going to invite the whole club out water skiing?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:59 am 
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I HATE hatchbacks!

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 11818
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
MikeWhitney wrote:

It runs *so* much better in the driveway after fixing these 4 problems -- I can't wait to get it out and see if I possibly fixed the WOT problems too...

If this doesn't fix it, switch to a megasquirt!!!! :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:48 am 
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I HATE hatchbacks!

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 11818
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Mike, have you done any gelcoat repair yet?

I've got some exposed fiberglass and want to recover it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:12 am 
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Got Powah?
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 4724
Jason Mauldin wrote:
Mike, have you done any gelcoat repair yet?

I've got some exposed fiberglass and want to recover it.


Yep. I used the MAS kit from Overtons. It was pricey but worked great. It's pretty bright white so the color may not match perfectly. But for the hull side it doesn't matter.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product ... OGLE_76621

Image

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:13 am 
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Got Powah?
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 4724
Hey do you guys think this might have anything to do with my hot-running WOT performance problems??!?! :shock:

Image

Image

After scraping the rust / paint off the oil leak is obvious. Shaking the coil I can't hear any oil inside sloshing.

Image

So the oil is to cool the coil internally. And it's obviously got little or no oil inside. Add heat, and getting shorting internally I bet. It does ohm out fine on the bench, I'm thinking about putting it in the garage oven and get it up to 150F or so and see if the resistance changes!

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:02 am 
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I HATE hatchbacks!

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 11818
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Is that a readily available part, or are you going to repair it?

My guess is that the oil also provides protection against voltage breakdown. If that's the case, and the insulation system has been sparking internally, it's probably going to continue breaking down if you were able to refill it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:42 am 
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Got Powah?
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 4724
Jason Mauldin wrote:
Is that a readily available part, or are you going to repair it?

My guess is that the oil also provides protection against voltage breakdown. If that's the case, and the insulation system has been sparking internally, it's probably going to continue breaking down if you were able to refill it.


Good grief no I'm not gonna fix it!!! :) $27 for a new one, already on order.

I can't wait to try it out. Probably gonna play hookey this week sometime...

I really am starting to think that the PO was throwing parts at this boat trying to get it to run well. Rebuild carb, cap, rotor, wires, multiple fuel filters, timing, compression. Nice that he did all the expensive stuff and left the final $27 problem to me to fix.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:34 pm 
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I HATE hatchbacks!

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 am
Posts: 11818
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
I reread your post, I don't know why I got the impression that you were going to rebuild it. :lol:


Anyway, hopefully that fixes the issue for you.

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 Post subject: Rebuildable
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 832
Jason wrote:
Quote:
I reread your post, I don't know why I got the impression that you were going to rebuild it. Laughing

Don't apologize Jason, you naturally assumed that Mike would rebuild an ignition coil because HE IS MIKE!

The oil in the coil is mainly to foil....arcing. (cooling is an added benefit, but the oil is primarily an insulation enhancement)
Charlie G

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuildable
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Got Powah?
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Posts: 4724
Charlie Guthrie wrote:
Jason wrote:
Quote:
I reread your post, I don't know why I got the impression that you were going to rebuild it. Laughing

Don't apologize Jason, you naturally assumed that Mike would rebuild an ignition coil because HE IS MIKE!

The oil in the coil is mainly to foil....arcing. (cooling is an added benefit, but the oil is primarily an insulation enhancement)
Charlie G


I think I'm gonna crack the sucker open, just want to see what's inside. I'll take pics :)

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:41 pm
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Location: Seattle, WA
From the look of that thing, you might get it open and find some minnows swimming around in there :).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:06 pm 
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You're just jealous

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:14 pm
Posts: 2553
Location: Raleigh, NC
This is just ANOTHER example of why it is a GOOD thing to buy from people like Mike, Donnie, and so many other THSCC members. What are the odds that Mike would have let a coil get in that kind of condition or "misbuilt" a carb the way the PO's "mechanic" did? Something less than zero . . . :lol:

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FS 50 2018 Mustang GT


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