Cell Phone vs. Under the Influence: Which is more dangerous?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:22 pm

How many times on your way home will you see a parent driving with kids in the car while the parent is talking on the cell phone? Are you one of them? Studies show that talking on the phone is as or more dangerous than drinking and driving.

So next time you pick up that phone, is that call worth your kids' life?

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:49 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Studies show that talking on the phone is as or more dangerous than drinking and driving.

really...i didn't know that...can you point me to those studies?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:00 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

really...i didn't know that...can you point me to those studies?

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201586,00.html

- AB

AdamBreakey · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:17 pm

You know what bothers me about those studies. They leave one metric out of the study. Why don't they also test how distracted a driver is when engaged in a normal conversation with someone in the car with them - or even better, someone in the back seat. Without that metric, it is hard to say if it is the cell phone that is causing the distraction or the conversation the driver is having that is causing the distraction.

of course, if they would just look at the act of picking up the cell phone and dialing a call, then that would be valid. But that is not what these studies are looking at.

I feel like studies such as the one linked to above might have an agenda. :shrugs shoulders: To set the record straight: I do recognize that driving in the car by yourself, with the radio off and no cell phone is the safest way to travel. I just don't buy cell phone usage and drinking and driving on the same level of impaired driving.

adamb

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:24 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Chris Brown wrote:

really...i didn't know that...can you point me to those studies?

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201586,00.html

- AB

First, before we totally hijack this thread, someone feel free to start a new thread. But I will hijack it a small bit.

If this gets out of control, I can break this off into a new thread.

I think that story and/or study is 100% bunk. After reading the details, I think I could drive a truck through the holes in that study.

Do cell phones cause accidents? Abolutely. Is it worse/more dangerous than drunk driving? I can imagine a senario in which it is! Lets take everyone on I-40 this evening that is talking on a cell and load them up with booze instead. Watch the mayhem!

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Richard Casto wrote:

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Chris Brown wrote:

really...i didn't know that...can you point me to those studies?

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201586,00.html

- AB

First, before we totally hijack this thread, someone feel free to start a new thread. But I will hijack it a small bit.

If this gets out of control, I can break this off into a new thread.

I think that story and/or study is 100% bunk. After reading the details, I think I could drive a truck through the holes in that study.

Do cell phones cause accidents? Abolutely. Is it worse/more dangerous than drunk driving? I can imagine a senario in which it is! Lets take everyone on I-40 this evening that is talking on a cell and load them up with booze instead. Watch the mayhem!

Perhaps the issue at hand is the definition of "drunk driving", the previously mentioned study used people at the current legal limit of 0.08% BAC. The NMA has alot to say on this subject. The NMA is a good group that have the best interests of people like us who enjoy driving in mind and not just a bunch of "crazies". I mean they were largely responsible for the elmination of the 55 mph national speed limit, so you gotta like them just on principle.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:27 pm

The government also needs to be more strict about making sure the people they issue licenses to are fit to drive...

this is very true, ive seen major incompetence among drivers.. my sisters husbands sister has two kids very young..

ChuckNelson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:58 pm

The stuff I have read shows cell phones cause about the same amount of distraction as messing with the radio or talking to a person in the car with you.
Personal experience seems to show that people on phones are even more distracted. When I see someone weaving, brake checking to not miss a turn, or burning a light, they almost always have a phone tucked to their ear.
I would never drive a car even after a single beer, but I can perform some complicated actions after three or four beers. It does not seem to impair my ability to play RushHour, http://www.puzzles.com/products/rushhour.htm
RushHour is also pretty fun when sober

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:12 pm

Here's the source of the widely quoted "cell phone use is as dangerous as drunk driving" study:

http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCognit ... nt2003.pdf

Pretty solid research, too bad the press always massively oversimplifies science. I read a study a while back that was about the relative distraction level between hands-free and regular cell phones that surprisingly enough found the distraction level similar between the two with the distraction of talking to someone in the passenger seat much lower. Couldn't find it with a quick google search.

Edit: (Duh! Would have helped if I had read the whole paper first...)
"These data also call into question driving regulations that prohibit
hand-held cell-phones and permit hands-free cell-phones, because no significant differences were found in the impairments to driving caused by these two modes of cellular communication." <-- that was the last line of the Utah study.

--Kevin H.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Christ, I can't believe no one else has said it:

Whenever you're tempted to make a call, put down the cell phone and crack open a brew instead! Save the children!

Talking on the phone, applying makeup, shaving, eating cereal, drinking booze, whatever. These things that people do that we say are "dangerous" are all just noise, masking the more serious problem:

Not enough people take driving seriously.

I have done and do many of the "distractions" listed above. But even when I do I'm a smart and safe driver. BECAUSE I TAKE DRIVING VERY VERY SERIOUSLY. That's the message all these stupid "what I can and can't do while driving" laws fail to deliver.

Ashraf Farrag · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:21 am

Interesting that this subject comes up. Last Friday I attended a symposium where the speaker was basically talking about "hacking" the human brain - i.e. some of those visual "tricks" (things dissapearing from your field of view) most people have seen at one time or another.

Anyhow, his research extends into this realm - how people process information and attention span. He affirmed that basically, cell phone use is no different with or without the handset because most users will concentrate more on the conversation than the driving. The handsfree may only help for a limited period of time but it still isn't going to solve the root of the problem - the conversation itself. A conversation in the car is different since the person in the car will innately "pace" things and attention can be redirected back to driving (i.e. seeing traffic up ahead). The person on the other end of a cell call isn't going to be seeing what's going on in the car and allow for this.

I could try to go into more details but the high points coincide with what is being said in the Utah study Kevin cites.

The root of the problem is distracted driving, be it cell phone conversation, radio, too intense a conversation with a passenger, not enough sleep or whatever else you are doing besides paying full attention to driving are as bad as having a substance doing the same thing while you are trying 100% to drive but are unable to because the substance is "distracting" you.

Regards,
--Ashraf

AdamBreakey · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:36 am

Ashraf Farrag wrote:

The root of the problem is distracted driving, be it cell phone conversation, radio, too intense a conversation with a passenger, not enough sleep or whatever else you are doing besides paying full attention to driving are as bad as having a substance doing the same thing while you are trying 100% to drive but are unable to because the substance is "distracting" you.

Regards,
--Ashraf

exactly. Distracted driving is the problem. A 3-year old arguing with their twin brother in the back seat will not 'pace' the conversation with the traffic any more so than someone on the phone would.

adamb

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

MikeWhitney wrote:

Talking on the phone, applying makeup, shaving, eating cereal, drinking booze, whatever. These things that people do that we say are "dangerous" are all just noise, masking the more serious problem:

Not enough people take driving seriously.

I have done and do many of the "distractions" listed above. But even when I do I'm a smart and safe driver. BECAUSE I TAKE DRIVING VERY VERY SERIOUSLY. That's the message all these stupid "what I can and can't do while driving" laws fail to deliver.

X2 Agreed

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:14 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Christ, I can't believe no one else has said it:

Whenever you're tempted to make a call, put down the cell phone and crack open a brew instead! Save the children!

My thoughts exactly!! :wink:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:14 pm

I am agreeing with the more recent posts. There are many things that can distract you. Drugs, alcohol, kids, lack of sleep, putting on your makeup, trimming your toenails, etc.

My take way from the topic of the thread is that the quoted proof is with people who are just over the legal limit. While I am all in favor of nearly zero limit levels for drunk driving, at legal limit some (not all) people can apparently function OK as drivers. And I also can certainly think of things that are going to affect your ability to drive more that just being right at the legal limit. Lack of sleep is a big one in my opinion. But nobody is looking to ban driving at night. Another is older drivers who shouldn’t be driving anymore.

What I think is that it is just nuts to generically label "cell phone usage" as being worse than "drunk driving". Cell phone drivers on average tend to only get so bad when they are driving (what is the rate of cell phone users vs. drunk drivers getting on the interstate the wrong way?). The worst cell phone driver is nowhere close to the worst drunk driver. The entire thing is an effort to bring up awareness of cell phone driving dangers, but it tends to belittle (IMHO) the dangers of drunk driving. I think the two are a bit of apples to oranges.

If you are truly drunk, dangerous and driving, you can’t just decide to “turn it off”. You could be so drunk that even if you make it home, you don’t remember anything. If you decide to make a cell phone call, but see that traffic is bad, you can decide to end the call, or refuse to accept a call. Same goes for things like disciplining your children. I have more than once decided to pull of the road to give the kids a talking to vs. risking trying to do that and drive due to traffic conditions (or how much I need to yell at the kids!). But at the same time, in light traffic conditions that I am comfortable with, I will talk on the cell (or discipline my kids) with no hesitation.

So what we are talking about are things that can be done safely and can also be abused. So this is why it is difficult to create laws to enforce safe behavior. Because some see that for them it is not a problem, but it is for others. But it is nearly impossible to drink and drive safely. And most people would agree with that, so that is why nobody is trying to repeal drunk driving laws.

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