For everyone that has kids...

RebeccaBreakey · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:05 pm

I wouldn't normally post a link to a video, but this happens to be one of my soap box issues. I am partially responsible for making certain that every new parent that leaves the hospital with a new baby has a carseat that the baby is fitted into properly and that the seat is installed in the car correctly.

I watched this video and realized that this could have been one of my kids or even one of my nieces or nephews and it really hit home. I just thought I would share it so that other people could think about how safe the children in their life might be.

Since we all race, we all know how important proper safety equipment is, but I guess we all don't think about what might happen if that safety equipment fails. Check out this video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:36 pm

I saw this video last week and it really hit home. If you have kids, and think you know better than the experts about what makes your kid safe, then you need to watch this video.

Be warned, you will be second guessing your decisions on child seat safety. I know I did.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:14 pm

Being a parent makes it tough to watch a video like that. I can't imagine how rough it would be to loose one of your own children.

Anyhow, my two kids are 4 and 8. The oldest just will not fit in a 5 point harness at this point and is in a booster seat. The 4 year old is getting ot the point that while weight wise should still be in a 5 point, he is tall for his age so the sholder straps are in the wrong (bad) location. We want to keep him in a 5 point for as long as we can. He is not ready to move over now, but it is in the near future.

I did some really fast reading about the Britax seats mentioned in the video (can be used up to 80lbs). I am a bit confused as it sounds like from the video that the seat belt latch failed for them. So, I am thinking booster or 5 point, the result may have been the same (latch fail, child and seat go flying). There is the new LATCH system that is in newer cars, but when looking at the Britax info, they mention that you should not trust the LATCH system beyond 48lbs (I am assuming that this is the required min rating for the LATCH design), so again, you would be using the seat belt to hold it in for larger kids.

Tina and I half joke about putting in racing seats and 5 point harnesses for everyone in the van!

RebeccaBreakey · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:35 pm

There is a great deal of information to be sorted through regarding safety seats. Unfortunately, there is really no industry standard and every manufacturer makes very different seats. When you add in that every state has somewhat different laws regarding how you restrain children, it leads to a lot of confusion.
The seats that the girls are in (in the van anyway) are Alpha-Omegas, and as the name suggests, you can use the seat from the time they are rear facing infants and convert it to a booster seat after they reach 40lbs. Emma is 4, but slightly under 40lbs, so she is still in a five point. The great thing is the back (where the shoulder straps insert) slides up as they get taller.

Quote:

they mention that you should not trust the LATCH system beyond 48lbs

Once you exceed the limits of the LATCH you could always go back to the "old-fashioned" seat belt and locking clip to secure the seat.

Several other things to note: Most carseat manufacturers recommend destroying a seat after six years or any type of accident. The plastic can breakdown with the extreme temps that most vehicles are exposed to. Check the dates and check for recalls on all of those seats also!!!!

Maybe we should all put racing seats with five pt harnesses in our family vehicles.

[/quote]

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

If I follow that video/article then the failure was of the factory seat belt latch and had nothing to do with the booster seat. Having used them in the past with our kids I never liked them. I don't think I ever worried about the latch breaking free. I worried about the upper belt. It never fit a small child properly and would be too close to their neck. Back then they didn't have car seat tethers so we were totally dependent on the factory seat belt staying latched so that the baby seat and booster seat stayed still.

I'm more concerned about the general statement that car seat belt latches have a tendency to fail.

Ann was hit twice with the kids in the car. My daughters in baby seats and my son in a booster seat. Same issue in both accidents. Someone not paying attention and ran a stop sign. Fortunately in both incidents the car took a beating and the kids were just fine. Something to be said for a 73 Olds Toronado. That big old tank was unstoppable and protected my wife and kids.

I feel for that guy and his wife. I can't imagine a pain that could cut more deeply than loosing a child.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:10 pm

The government also needs to be more strict about making sure the people they issue licenses to are fit to drive...

this is very true, ive seen major incompetence among drivers.. my sisters husbands sister has two kids very young.. iwas at the dmv getting my license renewed... and a lady who was very old and in a walker, who had both wrists broken, because the wheel very gently twitched in her hands.,. got her license... if the wheel is getnly twitching and breaking bones, thinking is required to hand out a license

MaliaFredrickson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

I must admit that I haven't had the courage to view the video (it was posted on another forum of mine a week or so ago) due to my recent events. I must say though I am very happy that we also put Marisa into her car seat and make sure that it is properly and securly installed (using the seatbelt bc the Durango didn't have a latch). I think that is a major reason why she had no issues from the wreck. Sometimes I wish I had been in a seat like hers and maybe I wouldn't still be hobbling around!

What I cannot believe is all the young kids I see in the front seats or standing up in the car. I know it has gotten better from when we were kids but I still see parents letting their young kids standing up while they are driving down the road. That just drives me crazy! I admit I have talked on the phone while driving (usually using a hands free unit) and I don't see how that is any different than talking to someone sitting in the car.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:35 pm

I guess I missed the point of the video, but what I saw was a case where the seat belt failed. It simply didn't stay latched. So if you don't have LATCH or a tether, then in this instance your child would have died, too (car ejected kid and rolled over kid...kid still in now-ejected safety seat wouldn't have fixed that). Combine that with what Richard said (don't use LATCH if kid over 48 pounds) and you have no better solution currently.

It's sad the kid died. I feel for the loss, really I do (I have a two and a four year old and can't imagine life without them). But every system on the market today still has a single point of failure (a five point harness still has the single middle buckle). I'm sure there are possible scenarios where even if the tether was on and the belf latch didn't hold the seat the child could be smacked around just wrong, too.

Shit happens, and we can't put ourselves in bubbles to prevent it. We can be educated and it's nice to know a 5 point seat is available for kids up to 80 pounds. I still probably won't use it, but that's what I got from the video. Oh, that and we need better drivers education programs and better license testing to at least better attempt to keep morons off the road.

BTW, for those "scared" to watch it, don't be. It's just a slideshow of pics of their kid before he died mixed with text messages about how he died and what would have prevented it, and it's set to music. Nicely done, I might add, but not graphic or anything. No accident photos or even photos of the parents or funeral or anything.

--Donnie
PAID FOR BY THE COMMITTEE TO ELECT JOHN SHEELY'S HAIR

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

MaliaFredrickson wrote:

I don't see how that is any different than talking to someone sitting in the car.

One of the biggest differences as I understand it, and it makes sense. Is that a passenger in the car is more likely to be aware of whats going on outside the car and stop conversation when situations arise, potentially even alerting you to the situation. I know it has certainly happened to me many times. Someone on the other end of the cell phone affords you no such luxury.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

One thing I continue to be amazed and frustrated about ... Child safety systems are pretty complex, and installation is not a trivial task. A person needs to be a VERY aware safety enthusiast to even be competent to install one in anything but the "ideal" situation. How many people actually put their weight on the seat when snugging the straps? How many people don't understand whether the rear strap in installed correctly? How many people in older cars don't use the locking buckle on 3-pt belts? How many people don't TUG on that LATCH belt to make sure it's really engaged in those "hidden" latch applications?

I mean, I have installed multiple safety systems in race cars, consider myself quite aware of vehicle dynamics in a crash, and know how to identify (and correct) weak points --- and still every time I put a seat in a car I find myself wondering, "They expect the average idiot to be able to do this?!?!?"

Maybe it's Darwin at work after all....

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:30 am

I agree with Mike, and I'd add I can't believe how non-standard every different seat can be. Add to that the fact that it's such a PITA to move a seat from one car to another that we find ourselves far more likely to rearrange schedules and who does what during a day just so the car with the baby seat *already* in it is what dictates the schedule. Obviously boosters are *much* easier to deal with in this regard.

LATCH is the suck, IMHO, simply because it can be so horrible to find and attach to. We use it where possible, but I still think it sucks bad enough that a lot of people probably have it and *don't* use it simply because they may only be able to afford one car seat and may need to swap their seat between mommy and daddy's car fairly often.

--Donnie

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

I remember sometime back that the Highway Patrol and NC-DOT were offerring free safety inspections. They would show you exactly how to get these seats installed and setup properly. I'm sure there are other organizations offering. And it appears from Rebecca's comment that the hospital is now getting involved. That's a good thing.

Now help me out here. What LATCH system are we talking about? The actual car seat belt latch? The latch on the baby seat? I'm familiar with a booster seat that you simply route the cars 3-point harness around. The old baby seat we had you fed the car seat belt through its frame and then snugged it down by putting your knee in the seat to get all the slack out of the car seat belt. Is their some new system?

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:34 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

Now help me out here. What LATCH system are we talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LATCH

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:38 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Add to that the fact that it's such a PITA to move a seat from one car to another that we find ourselves far more likely to rearrange schedules and who does what during a day just so the car with the baby seat *already* in it is what dictates the schedule. Obviously boosters are *much* easier to deal with in this regard.

Ditto.

I have two kids. I own eight car seats. I think I own car seats like Donnie owns cars!! :lol:

My car:
1 x 5 point
1 x booster

Mother in laws car:
1 x 5 point
1 x booster

Tina's car:
1 x 5 point
3 x booster

We carpool 2 other kids to school with another parent so we have 3 boosters in Tina's car instead of just one and the other family have the same. Its all so we don't have to move seats in/out of cars. At any one time any of us can pick up the kids without having to worry about seats.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:45 pm

My dad was the admin of a Childrens Hospital clinic as a late as the late 80's early 90's was complaining that the hospital parking lot attendants were allowing unbelted children <2yrs old to leave the lot w/o being in a carseat. Of course he was told not to worry. :cry:

THSCC Forums

For everyone that has kids...

Who is online