THSCC Forums

Grabbed this from another forum and no, this doesn't happen at DTC....

Uhhh, yeah, I'd be upset.

Quote from the Owner:

"Dropped my Elise off to the local Goodyear shop to have new F1G3s installed. My Father-in-law is the service manager and has been for 10 years. He is out on medical leave, but he met me at the shop this morning, because he understands the uniqueness of the car.

I handed them the tire tools and opened the Owner's Manual to the jacking instructions so they would be clear. We went over all the instructions and they assured me I was in good hands.

We (my father-in-law and I both left)

1 hour later I get a call about the "accident" and that I needed to come down...

WTF!

So this is what I found..."

OUCH!

That car has the strangest "tipping point" of any car I've ever seen. The front end is just *so* light, even compared to something like an MR2 Spyder it's amazing. The structure points under it are VERY strange, too. In fact, I had to hold down the front right corner on Randy Chase's car at Nationals while he jacked the right side so he could put a jack stand behind the jack in the proper spot for it to sit up on one side on one jackstand. There was no point further back to put the stand, and putting the jack further back would have left no room for the stand. But with the jack as far back as it would go and leave room for the stand, the car still tipped back ever so gently onto the back wheel. I simply pushed the front corner down and kept probably 25 pounds of pressure on it, and Randy go the stand under it and it sat fine. Of course, taking the front tire off that side may have taken enough weight off the front that it tips back again, I don't know. I'm sure you could, at the very least, take the rear tire off first and *then* take the front tire off.

In any event, WOW. What a bunch of dumbasses. The first was the owner who took it to a tire place for tires. Idiot. Anyone with a car like that who takes it to a shop like that has it coming, IMHO. Buying tires there is fine, but he should have put the car on stands at home himself and taken the wheels in. And then for the shop to ignore the directions he gave them makes them liable, obviously. It also makes the morons for not realizing what they were dealing with. But hey, the pictures will make a LOT of rounds on the Internet.


--Donnie

Why would Lotus not have proper jack points on the car? A reinforced spot where you could pick up the car and not need a freind to hold the corner down. Perhaps they hired that guy from Mazda, that put the access hole in the MAZDA3 front pan about four inches from the oil filter center.

_________________
RedLanternRacing, builders of the fastest cars in last place.
Success is not an option.
1981 Scirocco, "Vera"

I looked at the photos and realized who it was based upon the site that is hosting the photos (914 related). It is a regular on the 914club.com forum (where I spend a lot of time) named Karl. Its a small world. Here is the source thread...

http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?s ... =63534&hl=

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

So... Exactly where are people supposed to go for tires? His father in law is the service manager at the place and apparently vouched for them. I kind of put it in the category of us going to a favorite local shop (that we trust) and something bad happened.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

There are jack points under the car. The whole bottom is smooth and the actual points are not that obvious. The one that we have worked on lifted fine at the stock points with floor jacks. We lifted a side at a time and had no issue.

Hubcap Heaven of course!

--Kevin H.
(Hmm need to call Mark in the morning... Gotta mount some tires on the quattro)

_________________
2003 WRX (again!)

I think what he was getting at was taking the CAR there instead of just the wheels. The owner KNEW the issues and pointed them out, but if I had the same car, I would just take the wheels in. Hell, I do that with my my cars and they don't have any jacking issues.

_________________
Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

What Todd said.

My point is that this car is *very* special in how it must be lifted. Given that, and given that the owner *knew* how to do it, he should have taken the wheels in himself. The other option would have been to take the tires he wanted put on to the dealer and have *them* do it. Those are the only two options *I* would consider with an Elise, I don't care who owned the shop.


--Donnie

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I understand that doing it himself or at a Lotus dealership may have been best. (Have you never had a car fall off jackstands or something slip off a jack and do damage at home?) But not everyone can always do that all of the time. Sometimes you have to trust someone. And if it is "tire" related, them maybe a "tire" shop is where you would take the car.

You can have idiots that work at chain shops, dealership as well as independent shops. Here is a shop that is run by a close relative who probably vouched for the people that worked there. Maybe he has been going there for year? So this being a chain shop is pretty much irrelevant.

I didn't want to use local shops for examples earlier, but Kevin tossed out Hubcap Heaven (FYI... I have had nothing but excellent experiences at HH). Lets say it happened at HH. You trust them and then something bad happens. It can happen to ANYONE. Of course you are pissed and expect things to be made right no matter how good your relationship is with whoever is doing the work.

It just make a good story because it was a chain shop (which we all love to bash) AND the story and photos as just too juicy.

Now if he said he had just taken it to a chain shop that he didn't know, then he would be an idiot. Especially due to the special nature of that car. I understand what you are saying Donnie, and I am sorry if I sound touchy about this , I just am thinking you were a bit harsh as I "sort" of know this guy via his forum posts at 914club.com, and I don't consider him to be an idiot. Just unlucky.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

And why the heck did they lift it that far up just to swap tires anyway. If I am changing a tire I pick the car up just enough to get it the wheel off the ground.

_________________
RedLanternRacing, builders of the fastest cars in last place.
Success is not an option.
1981 Scirocco, "Vera"

What in the heck is the weight bias on that thing?
95% rear / 5% front ...

I do like the idea of that nice undertray covering the length of the car. The aero efficiency should be excellent.

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com

RIchard, we'll just have to agree to disagree, sort of. I will retract the idiot comment, though I do still contend that what he did was pretty much "stupid", IMHO (and I'm guessing you'll disagree with that, and that's fine).

I trust Mark at HH more than I'd trust most dealers. I'd put him on par with a relative that I trusted who managed a big chain store like above. I am *not* being biased against big chains or any of that, I'm just stating that I *still* wouldn't take my Elise or Cayman or 911 to HH or any big chain. Doing so is putting things at risk unnecessarily, IMHO, and things like this are getting on the "too likely" side, even if they are still relatively unlikely.

The Elise may be on the "cheap" side, but it is still considered a relatively exotic car. Now, even if this thing is fixed by a dealer, this guy still owns the car in those pictures, and as such it will never be completely the same. Especially at resale time. When you own a car like this there is *no* amount of "hardship" you could claim that would keep the owner from being able to take it to a dealer or pull those wheels himself (well, short of being a handicapped Alaskan, I suppose).

To each his own opinion on this, certainly. But I still contend it was stupid.

--Donnie

Same here. The further the car is from the ground, the further my weak a$$ has to lift the wheels.

_________________
Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Yeah, I can agree with you on that. It was a "risky" thing to do and maybe not the best judgement. I probably would have done the same as you (pull wheels off at home).

You still have your Elise? For some reason I was thinking you had sold it?

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.