Failure to stop at a stop sign

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:29 am

Ok, a person I know who shall remain anonymous (lets call her “Tina” and she might be my wife) was ticketed for “failing to stop at a duly erected (stop sign)” the other day.

This was in Durham County. It was at a four way stop less than a mile from our house. Apparently they were doing some targeted enforcement at the intersection (which is odd as I have not seen it to be a problem. Speeding is a problem, but not the intersection itself). She approached the intersection, slowed almost to a complete stop, but with no traffic in view in any direction didn’t come to a complete stop before going through the intersection. Officer was parked about 50 yards away watching. Bingo! She was given a ticket for the rolling stop.

Before anyone recommends someone like Marcus Hill (she already has the slew of letters that came in the mail yesterday). I would like to know if this is about as low as it gets as far as traffic offenses. Basically could someone like Marcus (or even doing it ourselves) reduce this to something at all at traffic court? Or should we just pay the $50 fine and $110 court cost and walk away?

Also, what is the insurance impact on this? We both have pretty clean records. I think she had a speeding ticket about 8-10 years ago. I had one in 12/2001 and that was reduced to 9 under in Wake County traffic court based upon tips already documented in the forum.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:33 am

Also based upon Cline Hall's advice he gave to PJ, I may call my agent to discuss with him. We get along pretty well.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:09 pm

If she hasn't used the Prayer for Judgement option on anything prior, it's a great way to get out clean - keeps points off your insurance as long as she doesn't have another traffic ticket within 3 (I think?) years.

PJ Aspesi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:26 pm

Yeah I went to court yesterday, took about 45 min and they reduced it no questions asked. The fee was 125. I talked to a lawyer, he said that in Wake county they wont do the improper equipment thing. He said that sometimes if he talks to the officer he can reduce it to code which is similar. I figured I'd save 100 bucks on the lawyer fee and the 9 over wont affect insurance as long as I stay clean

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:42 pm

richard, i spoke to my ex-raleigh cop wife, and she said to check to see if the ticket was written against the city ordance or general statute...you can tell by looking at the ticket number written on the ticket. if it was written against the city ordance, then just pay the fine and walk away...i won't go to your insurance at all. if it is written on the general statute, then i would go ahead and call your insurance man...

susan wasn't even sure if that type of ticket, even if written on the general statute would go to your insurance anyway.

granted she was a raleigh cop, not durham, so this may all be useless

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:54 pm

I have one of those letters you get from lawyers that I got after my last traffic violation that says running a stop sign, if found guilty (not using a PJC or getting it thrown out otherwise), will cause a 25% increase in insurance.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:18 pm

I am pretty sure it was written against the general statute. I looked at the NC DMV web site and failure to stop at a stop sign looks to be just as bad (points) as passing a stopped school bus? That just doesn't make sense.

It also would be nice if there was a difference between a rolling stop with nobody in site and blowing through a crowded intersection while talking on you cell phone and not noticing it was a red light. :soap:

So I probably am going to call Marcus.

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:58 pm

Come on now, not pick on you or your better half, but theres no grey area there to complain about.

Its a stop sign, if you don't stop you can be ticketed. There;s no distinction for almost, or kind of. Yes most people roll through stopsigns at one time or another, some more than others. But to complain about getting a ticket for something they don;t deny doing, I mean really...

Most of us here can drive 'better' than 90% of people on the road from our autox and track experience. Does that mean we should be able to speed legally, or have lowered speeding fines? I mean that would be nice, but its not going to happen

Stacy King · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:07 pm

Richard...

Pick the least expensive lawyer and pay the money... I had similar experience here in Craven County. It is a relatively serious offence, so the lawyer fee is usually worth it. Cost me about $300 to get a red light violation reduced to a non-moving violation... no wasted PFJ or stress hoping the ADA will reduce it when you get there... money well spent IMHO... especially since I was guilty LOL

Here's my story: Coming off the highway, downhill... line of cars turning left through the intersection off of the exit ramp... looks lik I'll be able to make it so I sidle up behind a tractor-trailer thats just started to make his turn... well, of course, the cars in front of him back up, slowing him down, leaving his tail end and me hanging out to dry in the center of the intersection... still moving mind you... but the light had definately changed by that point... New Bern city cop happened to be sitting at the light waiting to go straight... he had his lights on before I even completed my turn DOH!!

-Stacy

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:29 pm

Stacy King wrote:

... no wasted PFJ or stress hoping the ADA will reduce it when you get there...

But he says his wife hasn't had a ticket in 8-10 years, so chances are extremely good that the PJC ('Prayer for Judgement Continuance') wouldn't be 'wasted'.

If you haven't already, before resigning to paying hundreds of dollars getting it reduced, I'd look into the Prayer for Judgement - it's basically a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card, assuming the user doesn't repeat offend in the next few years.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:26 pm

Adam Ligon wrote:

Come on now, not pick on you or your better half, but theres no grey area there to complain about.

Its a stop sign, if you don't stop you can be ticketed. There;s no distinction for almost, or kind of. Yes most people roll through stopsigns at one time or another, some more than others. But to complain about getting a ticket for something they don;t deny doing, I mean really...

Most of us here can drive 'better' than 90% of people on the road from our autox and track experience. Does that mean we should be able to speed legally, or have lowered speeding fines? I mean that would be nice, but its not going to happen

Adam,

Please point out where I am saying she didn't do something illegal or that she should get away with it. :roll:

Save that for when I start ranting about how they should be out looking for war criminals instead of hassling us "good folk" or something like that. We are not trying to "get out of it", but rather trying to figure out "what to do".

What I was saying was (please re-read my posts). Was that I felt that there was a difference between a rolling stop and fully running a stop sign or stop light. I was also pointing out that IMHO a rolling stop is not in the same class as passing a stopped school bus with it's lights on and picking up children.

Anyhow, thanks for contributing to the discussion. :moon:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:32 pm

Kieth and Stacy,

I may look into a PFJ. But I am leaning toward taking the lumps ($$$ for attorney) than running the risk of something else happing and getting twice the trouble later on.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:34 pm

I was doing some additional research and I was wrong about something

Passing a school bus that is loading/unloading is "5" points (I am glad it is stiff). I had misread the "3" point list. It is "3" points to speed through a school zone. It is "3" points for failing to stop at a stop sign.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:33 pm

Adam Ligon wrote:

Most of us here can drive 'better' than 90% of people on the road from our autox and track experience. Does that mean we should be able to speed legally...

YES!!!

Seriously, Richard, I got pulled for runing a stop sign back in high school while on a date. The cop was actually pretty cool, he said that rather than really mess up my insurance with lots of points, he would give me a ticket for 50 in a 35. Pretty cool in my book. That allowed the beating that I got to come from my Dad and not my insurance company!!!

Call a lawyer, they are actually useful in this situation.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:01 am

This is still on my "To Do" list. It sounds like people are suggesting that for relatively minor offenses to go with a less expensive solution and save going to someone like Marcus Hill (who must charge much more) when you have some type of serious or multiple traffic offenses.

Problem is that the small stack of letters from attorneys we received has accidentally found their way into the trash. Can someone IM me a recommendation? This would be for Durham County. I would prefer to not just pick up the phone book and pick someone randomly. It seemed like those who sent us mail were charging in the range of $60-70.

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Failure to stop at a stop sign

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