USGP What a farce!!!

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:22 pm

I am pissed at Michelin. They knew about this race for a year and they didn't bring a tire that was safe enough to race with! What a load of crap!! I think the FIA made the right decision by NOT changing the course to accomadate the Michelin teams. They should have to run on the course as designed. But for the Michelin teams to take the grid only to come into the pits after the formation lap, that is just as classless as the fans who threw stuff on the track.

Then to hear that the French, and apparently other countries, stopped airing the "race", WOW!

What a waste of my time.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:03 pm

I am not sure who to be mad at. I tend to think the FIA for pushing the types of rules that make this happen or make something like this become a huge problem. You have a situation in which you have a supplier who is trying to make a part that has a very small margin for safety. This is no different than any other part on the car. But then in this case it does not work AND the bulk of the teams use this part AND they are really not allowed to swap out the part. What would have happening if all the team used the exact same rear wing and they found a manufacturing defect in it? They probably would have overnighted new wings in for the race and the teams would have used them.

Basically everyone was between a rock and a hard place. FIA needed to follow their rules. The teams wanted to race, but didn't want a PR disaster if something went really badly (death of drivers and/or workers and fans). Michelin probaby wanted to crawl under a rock and die. I also somewhat like that FIA didn't bend so that if shows how crazy the situation really is.

There is a bunch of things wrong with F1 and I think the #1 problem is fiddling with the rules from year to year and race to race to try to "fix" things. Especially band-aids to try to keep the cost down. So now you have qualifying rules that change all the time, rules about engine swaps that cause weird problems and now the issue with tire restrictions.

I believe a number of people earlier in the year said that the tire rules would eventually run into some type of safety issue and it would cause problem. I don't think that even those who said it was a bad rule could even imagine it being this bad.

Yeah Michelin screwed up. But once the screw up happened they had no way to get out of the situation and that is the problem. This is racing and things like this should be settled on the track. I think that what should have been done is to allow the new Michelin tires, but at the same time, allow Bridgestone cars to use new tires as well. Also, they should stop the one tire for qualifying and start rule. Heck, I even heard that the Michelin teams said they would allow the Bridgestone teams to the front of the grid if it would help.

All of this would have been bending the rules, but what it does is give the fans a race to watch. That should be the #1 priority. Especially if they are open about bending and/or rewriting the the rule to allow the show to go on. The amount of PR damage they have done in the NA market is probably huge and not worth sticking to the rules as tightly as they have done.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:04 pm

I can't explain the rationale for taking the parade lap and then pulling off the track...could it have anything to do with points? *shrug*

I agree that the blame is to be put on Michelin...you can't blame teams for not racing on the tire, but they should be incredibly pissed, too. Imagine the money they spent for a race weekend that didn't happen for them. Amazing.

The FIA did the right thing, plain and simple.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:25 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I can't explain the rationale for taking the parade lap and then pulling off the track...could it have anything to do with points?

I suspect it is a combination of things...

* Maybe they had to run at least one lap (formation lap) to meet some type of minimal obligation with FIA/F1/event organizer.
* Also allows them to swap out engines for those teams that were on their second race on that engine.
* And other stuff I can't think of at the moment.

I threw out my idea on how it should have been handled. Any other arm-chair racing series chiefs out there?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:34 pm

This has to qualify for the BONEHEAD move of the year. I was all ready to see some good ole' open wheel action only to see a Ferrari test session. Bernie may be an idiot but the engineers at Michelin aint looking to swift either.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:54 pm

There weren't any points involved for the teams to take the formation lap. All who did not start were listed as "Not Classified"

The rules set are made a couple of years in advance. i.e. The rules for 2008 have to be set by August according to the guys on Speed. So the rules that they are currently racing under were made at the end of 2003 with some changes for safety. The cost reductions were part of that rules set.

As for changing tires during the race, the FIA says that you CAN change tires during the race if it is for a SAFETY concern. Therefore, if the Michelin teams wanted to change thier tires every other lap, they could under FIA rules.

The only organization to blame is Michelin for not making a suitable tire. They are just pissed that Bridgestone finally got some points this year. Plain and simple.

If I wanted to watch a tire test, I'd watch CART, IRL, or NASCAR!!!

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:23 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

The rules set are made a couple of years in advance. i.e. The rules for 2008 have to be set by August according to the guys on Speed. So the rules that they are currently racing under were made at the end of 2003 with some changes for safety. The cost reductions were part of that rules set.

I think that the high impact technical regulations is decided quite a bit in advance. This is stuff like engine displacement, min car weight, etc. This is the type of stuff they are working on now for 2008 (as well as those who are working on creating the break away series).

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was just last month that they changed qualifying rules. I believe it takes just a unanimous vote by all of the teams to make changes like that. So they can change the rules if they want. However, getting that 100% consensous is tough and that has also been a problem in the past. I think there has been efforts to change that as well and move to a majority vote. There has been times when a single team can block a rule change that really may help. F1/FIA also has a limited amount of weight that they can swing as far as rule changes. Generally when it comes to safety, they can make changes without approval from the team.

I suspect that what happened today is an example of that. Bridgestone has been down and out recently and most likely they and Ferrari just couldn't get past the chance to stick a finger in the eye of Michelin (even if they may deserve it) and the teams who use Michelin (probably don't deserve it). The problem is that you end up creating a total farce of a race and all of those that have paid money to attend, etc. got the shaft.

Yes Michelin screwed up big time and should not be let off the hook. But the FIA and the teams COULD have worked this out if they really wanted to do so. It is just sad that it ended up the way it did. I would bet that they WILL put something in place in the future to prevent this exact scenario from happening again. They can't create a rule to force them to drive unsafe cars. I don't know how they will do it, but something will be worked out.

Even though I have been a fan for a long time I still think F1 is screwed up and I don't think they are going to fix it anytime soon.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:26 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

There weren't any points involved for the teams to take the formation lap. All who did not start were listed as "Not Classified"

Yep, I think that is why they didn't run any laps after the start. Since only six cars were on Bridgestone, if anyone else had run a single lap and had been classified they would have scored points for however far down they give points (7th? and 8th?).

So I expect that the only way that they could agree (Michelin teams) to run a minimal amount of laps (again to probably satisfy some type of weird requirement that they "run") but that those higher up on the grid didn't get "free" points, they all had to pull in at the end of the formation lap.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:29 pm

i thought i heard on Speed that the teams met contractural obligations with griding and after that they could pull out.

point is, this is rich spoiled boys racing and always will be. today was nothing more than a pissing contest. not unlike the NHL or soon to be the NBA. there are 4 or 5 ways to look at this and all are valid to an extent. point is, those that pay to watch and follow the teams were the last to be considered in the deal that went down today. i don't miss hockey and i probably won't miss F1. good ridinance.

BTW Le Mans rocked. how bout them vettes! anybody remember when Wide World of Sports showed 30 minutes at most? black and white screen with dudes running to their cars for the start. 17 hours of coverage. awesome. can't wait for Daytona.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:59 pm

The solution to the problem for the future would be one tire manufacturer. You can call that a "tire test" if you like, but the reality is this situation can and will happen if you have multiple tire companies.

NASCAR bowed to pressure from Hoosier a few years ago to allow multiple tires. The result? Both companies ended up with unsafe tires at one track or another because they simply couldn't compete with each other *and* make a tire that was safe at EVERY track. Why? Because you have to get real teams to test your tires at every track for you. That's probably easier with NASCAR than it would be for F1 since F1 tracks are all over the *world*.

I don't agree with rule bending just to give the fans something to watch. If anything, I'm more likely to pay attention to F1 now than I was before just out of added respect I have for the sanctioning body.

The analogy about rear wings is bad. If everyone had a mandated wing and it was bad they'd certainly let them change it and there would be no competitive issue there since it affected EVERYONE. But this tire issue affected the teams that CHOSE to go with Michelin, and Michelin didn't provide them with an adequate product under the rules. The teams that chose something else were able to benefit from that choice. If you are going to allow the choice at all then you have to allow for this exact situation, IMHO.

--Donnie

David Teague · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:17 pm

EVery one should share the blame in this.. as this will probably be the last F1 race in a long time in the US.. so much for expanding thier US market share.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:33 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

If anything, I'm more likely to pay attention to F1 now than I was before just out of added respect I have for the sanctioning body.

As much as I like to give them grief for giving the shaft to the fans, I do respect them staying true to their principles. I also agree that they need a single tire manufacture.

Phil Wehman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:50 pm

Having moved back to Indy this year, I looked forward to going to the race. Rob Lupella came up and until 1:05 we had a great weekend. I fully agree with Donnie about a single tire race and suspect that if Bernie has his way, he'll be back to one tire. I also place 75% of the blame on Michelin for providing a poor tire. The track has not changed in 5 years. Why they could not provide a design for a known entity (turn 13) with a ton of supporting data is baffling. The temps this weekend were in the 70's which should have added to the tires' longetivity - so Michelin missed the design by a mile.

The other 25% of the blame is on the teams. They chose the tire. They managed to practice and qualify on the tire. To ask for a course change on Sunday morning is ludicrous. To ask the FIA to bend the rules is equally ludicrous. If the tires become unsafe the rules allow them to change them. They knew the extra time in the pits would hurt them, so this was their "way out".

I think this was one of those defining moments like when baseball went on strike. Perhaps they've lost sight of why they exist, which is the fans. I'll tell you there were VERY few happy fans there today. In fact, it was very ugly. I'm only out a hundred bucks or so, and a weekend. People like Rob took days off and drove hundreds of miles or flew halfway around the world. I thnk the teams should have sucked it up, run the race and changed the tires if needed - even if it cost them time.

My $.02 worth of rant, but I'm still sunburned and pissed!

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm

Phil Wehman wrote:

I'll tell you there were VERY few happy fans there today. In fact, it was very ugly.

Any idea what people where chanting right before and during the podium stuff? On Speed, you could hear that something was being said in unison, and the announcer said that they couldn't repeat it. It was also interesting to watch them find out right before they went up on the podium that none of the Indy representatives were going to be involved in the presentation and that Michael and Rubens had interesting expressions on their faces.

David Teague · **Posted:** Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:32 pm

Phil Wehman wrote:

Having moved back to Indy this year, I looked forward to going to the race. Rob Lupella came up and until 1:05 we had a great weekend. I fully agree with Donnie about a single tire race and suspect that if Bernie has his way, he'll be back to one tire. I also place 75% of the blame on Michelin for providing a poor tire. The track has not changed in 5 years. Why they could not provide a design for a known entity (turn 13)!

Thats not entirelay true, Indy and the road couse were just resurface not too long ago, and IRL and Nascar did have a few cars who also had tire issues.
For thoose of you that blame Michelin, what would the FIA do if all the teams were on Michelin and refused to race on unsafe tires? I think everyone shares the blame in this, ferrair was the only team to not agree to change the track config because it was not thier problem, in fact there was some specleation that Jordan and Minardi were going to pull off in support of the other teams... that would have really made it just a ferrari race.
As pigheaded as I thinkg the france family is, I still thinkg the would have allowed some sort of compramise of the rules to allow there to be a real race, but instead politics gets on the way and the fans loose, of course I wasn ever a real big fan on F1 and even less of one now.

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USGP What a farce!!!

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