THSCC Forums

I think that we've reached the point that the only thing that we agree on is that we disagree

If you take politics out of the equation, then Michelin did the *right* thing when they told the teams that they were unsafe. It is readily apparent that when the design limits of the tire are compromised, that the tire is unsafe.

Now about that pesky chicane: there is an allowance to change the course if all of the teams get to practice on it. All of the teams that were present at the mandatory meeting Saturday agreed to it as well. The only team not present was Ferrari. And guess who won the fingerquote race?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Yep, we disagree and will probably continue to do that

Its not Ferrari's fault that the other teams had tire trouble. I see no reason why they should not take advantage of it. It is a competition with milions of dollars at stake. I'd feel the same way if any other team did the same.

Lets hope this never happens again. I enjoy a good race and was sorry to see this.

Now, a topic not talked about. Who the heck designed the Indy road course? I'm betting the same guy who did Kershaw. From what I see on TV it appears to have no good flow, too damned many slow corners with one REALLY long blast at full throttle. We could have, and should have, done better.

C ya

R

I have heard that they had to work within the confines placed by the existing speedway so there weren't as many options as one might think. Add in the FIA standards, and while I won't say it couldn't have been done better, I will say that the design was probably a real chanllenge and could have been a lot worse.

Either way, I think VIR would be a better location, how about you?

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

I like it!

Ron

I like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/dk3zu


Apologies that I've missed large parts of this thread, but Michelin did the right thing by advising their teams that the tires were not safe. Hence the teams on Bridgestones should benefit from making the correct tire choice.

If you decide to change the rules to give the fans a show IMHO you miss the point. It starts to look like Nascar and the mystery yellow flags near the finish to ensure excitement for the fans. Too often we blur the lines between "Sport" and "Entertainment". They're not always the same thing.

Frank

Whew, I thought you were going to come out on hte side of changing the course. This was a bad game of chicken by Michelin and the teams who run their crappy tires. Changes to the course to suit one tire, or one team, or one driver would just "NASCARize" F1 just like ...uh...NASCAR and their mystery debris flags when someone starts getting too far ahead. It is why I have a problem with all the F1 rule changes that are designed to try and slow the Ferraris down and stop their dominance. (It worked this year) Everyone plays by the same rules and the Williams, McLaren, BAR, Renault, Toyota, and Ferraris all have similar access to money. In every sport when the screw around with the rules and impede technology the racing ends up getting boring as no one can pass.

I still want my money back

Press Release
Michelin

On the eve of the FIA World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on Wednesday, Michelin has released the following press release.

"One week after the Indianapolis Grand Prix, Michelin wishes to make a sincere gesture of goodwill towards the people present at the GP, a group whose passion for F1 is encouraging in the development of this sport in the United States.

Therefore, on our own initiative and in total solidarity with our partners, we have taken two decisions:


1. Michelin has decided to contribute to the costs incurred by the spectators present at the circuit on Sunday June 19th 2005 by offering to refund their tickets. This is an important decision, since Michelin is not at all legally bound to do this.

Michelin deeply regrets that the public was deprived of an exciting race and therefore wishes to be the first, among the different groups involved in the Indianapolis race, to make a strong gesture towards the spectators.

2. Michelin also offers to buy 20,000 tickets for the 2006 U.S. Grand Prix to be given to spectators who were present at the Indianapolis race in 2005. We are offering this to promote further Formula 1 interest in the United States.

We would also like to take this opportunity to underline the fact that it is unacceptable that our partner teams have been accused by the FIA of having boycotted the Indianapolis Grand Prix. The reality is that together, Michelin and its partners have done everything possible to assure that the race could take place in total safety.

We are extremely disappointed that the proposals made with all our teams were not accepted. These proposals, including a chicane, were technically viable and totally met all safety requirements. On Sunday morning, June 19, the sporting authority had all the means necessary to preserve the interest of the race. And yet, the sporting authority rejected the proposed solutions. Why? In our view this is totally incomprehensible and reflects a lack of respect for the spectators.

It is the spirit of respect for the spectators that brought us, with our partners, to propose solutions to allow the race to take place in total safety. It is this same spirit that leads us today to make this gesture."

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http://www.greywinds.com

Until the last paragraph I was all with Michelin. But it is a great gesture by them to refund ticket prices and offer up free tickets to 20k of them. Very, very nice.

Ron

Michelin is clearly in F1 for the customers/public exposure (perhaps some engineering expertise, but I doubt they get much return on the dollar there). I have no problem with that, they are running a business and their offer is completely consistent with that position.

Clearly they believe the course should have been changed to meet their product's inability to perform. So the "spectators" could be entertained and, oh, Michelin not be made a goat.

Corporate drivel ...

Frank

If the spectators are priority #1, all the cars should be required to run on bad tires. Now THAT would be a hell of a race.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

And in other news, water is wet.


Way to stick to your guns, FIA. Waiting until three races are left in the season to divvy out punishment? I guess that the Max and Bernie show will have to see how Chin and Rubens are doing in the standings. And the first race after punishment will be in Rubens' home country of Brazil? Well slap my fro and call me Bubb Rubb.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

STupid to make them wait that long, they should just be penalized now and be done with it, if the Michelin teams walk (drive) so be it. You can not change the rules to fit one team/companies screwup or it is WWF. They should have let them switch tires and given them a start from the rear + 20sec penalty and no changes to fuel load penalty. Assuming both Ferraris had finished, they would have been 3rd through whatever. But they all played chicken.


BTW Wes, you don't by any chance hate Ferrari/schumi do you

The only way I could detest Chin more is for him to be French.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

The FIA has cleared the teams of guilt.

The FIA Senate has recommended that the seven Michelin-supplied teams found guilty of bringing Formula 1 into disrepute following the US GP fiasco at Indianapolis should have their verdicts overturned.

Following an emergency meeting of the Senate in Monaco, attended by McLaren boss Ron Dennis (representing the teams) and Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner, on Thursday, the FIA claimed new evidence brought forward absolved the teams of any guilt.

The FIA's statement, which followed the meeting, points the finger at tire supplier Michelin, which instructed its teams not race.

The French company claims its tyres were unsafe to use during the race after a series of failures through practice at Turn 13.

The teams argued successfully on Thursday that they were legally bound to follow this instruction.

"Having examined the new evidence… the Senate was satisfied that the teams were contractually bound to follow the instructions of their tire supplier and that their tire supplier had expressly prohibited them from racing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in its licensed configuration," read the statement.

"Recognising that for both sporting and legal reasons it was impossible for the FIA to authorise a change to the circuit configuration and that both the FIA and the teams could have faced serious legal difficulties in the United States had they not observed to the letter their respective rules and contractual obligations, the Senate was of the view that having regard to this new evidence, disciplinary proceedings against the teams had ceased to be appropriate and were no longer in the interest of the sport.

The statement continued by saying all charges against the teams, which are set to appeal the verdicts in a World Council hearing on September 14, should be dropped.

"It is anticipated that this recommendation will be put to the World Motor Sport Council by means of a fax vote in the next few days," said the statement.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/