THSCC Forums

I'm trying to justify buying a tow vehicle and one way I can do that is get something that I can also use in my business. I am looking at a 2001 Ford E150 cargo van with 60K miles, a 5.4L V8 and the towing package.

I'll be towing a 92 BMW 325is which weighs 3,000lbs and would eventually like to get a 7' x 16' enclosed trailer. I've been told a trailer this size will weigh around 2,600lbs. So the total trailer weight will be 5,600lbs. This is well within the towing capacity of 6,900lbs but by the time I put track stuff and my business tools in the van I have only 500lbs left of the maximum Payload and I still have to add tongue weight.

How do you figure out what the proper tongue weight will be in this situation? The vehicle loaded up will weigh 5800lbs.

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Mitch Moore

I don't have a lot of experience towing with anything but my Suburban, but I can offer my opinion. I tow 5000#, and the 'burb is rated at 8500#. I would never, ever want to tow much more than 5000# on a regular basis. If I were to upgrade to an exclosed trailer, it would be 3/4 ton truck and a big honking diesel for me.

Not that you can't do it with a 1/2 ton van, just that it won't be near as pleasant. Sounds like you should be looking for a bigger chassis, IMO. Especially if you plan to go enclosed.

With that said, I believe tongue weight should be in the 5-10% range. The nice thing about a big honking to vehicle? Tongue weight doesn't seem to matter much.

Mike <-- who will never buy a truck with less than 8500# tow capacity

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Thanks for the info and opinion. I'm also looking at the E250 but the towing capacity only increases to 7500lbs. You have to go to the one ton E350 to get a diesel. Then the towing capacity is 10,000lbs with the 4.71 axle.

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Mitch Moore

My van is a 1ton chassis (Chevy B350) with a 5.9L gas engine. It pulls a 5000 pound open trailer/car load well. Not quickly, but well. However, loosing half a liter, going to a much lighter chassis, and then pulling a huge brick of an enclosed trailer, would not be something I would enjoy.

Unless your car is not waterproof (open cockpit racer), I would recommend a larger van and a smaller (open) trailer.

I think that the hot setup would be one of those new Dodge Sprinter vans with a light aluminum trailer.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i550/55076_00mg.jpg


Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Sounds like a winner! What color are you going to get?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I agree with Mike. I didn't much care for towing a smallish car on a smallish open trailer with my F-150 Supercrew with the 5.4L gas engine. It would do it, but I didn't like it, and neither did the gas pump. I know Eric doesn't seem to mind towing a Spyder on an 18' steel open trailer with his 4.7L Tundra, but I still worry about the life expectancy a bit if you use it a *lot* for that.

I just bought an 18' all aluminum enclosed trailer with a 6'6" internal height. Note that all aluminum ones are EXPENSIVE. Also note they probably really only weigh about 25% less than a steel with aluminum skin one. That said, before I got that trailer I upgraded my tow vehicle to an Excursion with diesel. Even with it I'm only seeing about 10.5MPG on the highway (unmodified, but soon to change that).

While the diesel doesn't seem to have a problem getting it up to speed, the problem is the drag. It sucks. Pun intended. My F-150 would have certainly pulled it, but I'm betting the mileage would have been around 7MPG. Maybe 8, but no more. It would have certainly been working hard to do it, too.

If you trade your vehicles every two years or less, you *may* be able to get by with a gas tow rig. But if you expect longer life than that, well, go diesel. You'll be happy you did.


--Donnie

Better be real light: max payload capacity for those things is only 3600 lbs...

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

Huh??? From the Dodge page:

(Various models listed)
Payload Capacity - Maximum [lb] 4234 4118 4038 5170 3979 5110 3728 4877

Payload Capacity - Standard [lb] 4000 4000 4000 5100 4000 5100 4000 5100

Towing Capacity - Maximum [lb] 5000 5000 5000 5000 5000 5000 5000 5000

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Wow, if Donnie get only 10.5 mpg with is diesel am not too bad with my 5.2L Dodge. I'm getting around 9 mpg cruising at 65 mph with the overdrive turn Off. I was getting around 13 to 14 mpg with the open trailer cruising at 75 mph with overdrive On.
With an enclosed trailer when you reach 50 mph you can feel the drag building up. Beside that, now that experience an enclosed trailer I will not go back to an open one.
I will say that my 1/2 T. is pulling my trailer Ok no more. I will like to have something with more power and real 4 doors.
The kids are growing up and the extended cab is starting to feel small. I'm not sure yet between diesel or gas.
If you calculate the buying price difference and how much you save in mpg it will take a lot of miles or years to recoup the price
difference. The Nissan Titan is interesting, big 4 doors and power. The peak torque of my 5.2L is 300 ft/lbs at something close to 4000 rpm.
The Titan as the same 300 ft/lbs at 1000 rpm!!!!!!! and on a few magazine test, pulling a trailer, it came out first.
So at the moment the Titan is at the top of my list.

Patrice

Back when a car was worn out at 100k miles I would buy new and keep it till it was worn out. Now day's I usually buy low mileage used and sell it when I need or want something new.



Since only about one in a hundred of the used ones is not white I suspect that it will be white. As Henry Ford would have said "People can have the Model T in any colour--so long as it's white".

If I can find a low mileage diesel E350 at a good price I will probably buy it. I suspect that I am going to end up with a E250 or E350 with a gas V8 and spend the money I save on an open aluminum trailer.

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Mitch Moore

If you going with an open aluminum trailer a 150/1500 will be enough. Should save you even more money. Just find the biggest motor in that group. A Dodge with a Hemi or a Chevy with the 6L should be plenty.
A used Nissan might be difficult to find at the moment since it just came this year.

Patrice

I'll kick in on this one a little. I have only tow'd for about a year and it's with one of those Tundra 4.7 V8's and an Open Steel Trailer with a 3000plus car.

I was very suprised to get 16plus mpg the first time I towed with a trailer a friend let me use. I had a Miata then and the Trailer, though steel was very small, no brakes and barely longer than the Miata.

When I bought a decent trailer, brake's, heaver and BMW M3, my MPG has been 11 to Roabling Road at 75plus mph(much less down shifting than at 65?)(the motor like's it but the fuel tank does not).

My MPH to VIR at 55mph has been 13plusmpg. Better than I expected and I feel the Toyota is still a very good Daily Driver. Does not feel like a Truck.

I said all that to say this:

Diesel's seem very expensive to me and if "I" look at if I really am only going to tow 6 to 10 times a year, I just see the up front expensive. But if I were towing more or doing National(farther) Events, I would really think hard about Diesel. As expensive as they are they also soom to hold their Value. Bad new's there is a used one may cost a lot to ofcourse.

I"ve Drove Diesel's Professionally and they have come a long way. If say Shawn in his Ford with over 500lbs Torque and I were going to GA Towing. I just end up working a little harder to keep my "little" Toyota Gas from Down shifting just going over overpass's. I beleive Shawn's don't notice nothing at all. Even with the Towing Package, I prever to try and keep my Tran's from working to hard and You'll hardly see my truck down shift. I just speed up a little before the Hill or let it slow crossing the over pass.

I'm probobly on the other end from say, Mark Seinor. He's been towing small race Car's for years with a 4cyl Toyota and an open trailer. I just know a lot of folks just don't know how much that enclosed trailer will knock you down, with or with out hill's. All the Time.

For me, I want Diesel with enclosed (if I can afford it). I can not.

Sorry for the lenth of this but was told I should have somthing to say here. I guess not writing but a few time's a year I had a lot saved up.

Enjoy,

Peace...........Out

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Folks, Alway's be aware. I work out of town and it may be a while before I can read mail. Thanks,
Bill Gratton
caines21@wmconnect.com
910 670 1302

Regarding the gas motor - for what it's worth, I have no complaints at all about towing with the 7.4l gas motor in the Suburban. 290 HP, 410 ft-lb I believe, and the 3.73 (not the 4.10) rear end. On the higway at 75 MPH I get about 14 MPG unloaded and 11 MPG towing.

In fact I'm considering "downsizing" the Suburban to an Armada or Hemi Durango. They are a bit shorter wheelbase (8" and 12" resp.) and have slightly lower torque (385 and 370 ft-lb) numbers. However, the higher RPM capability of the motors means that they are both geared to put down within 5% of the Suburban's force at the ground (what _really_ matters) at highway speeds. And they are pushing around about 800lb less truck. Towing capacity (may be influenced by marketing) is listed as 9100 and 8950 respectively.

Both the Armada and Durango are essentially 1/2 ton trucks with big motors in them. I fully expect towing to be a bit more twitchy because of the shorter wheelbase but I expect the power and brakes to be fine, and they would be far more pleasant to actually be in than the Suburban.

Just some random data for you - I still think a E250 or E350 van is a good idea. Just make sure you get something with some good torque numbers, be it diesel or gas That lets you keep your options open for open, closed, aluminum, steel, etc.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

While the front end and motor is shared with the Titan, the Armada has an independent rear suspension supplemented with auto-adjusting levelers which makes it a comfortable ride when you're not towing. It's my daily driver and is a pretty nice ride!

I'm only towing about 3100 lbs of open trailer w/my Armada and get about 14 mpg while towing/18 non-towing. My low tow weight doesn't stress the Armada at all. I don't have a lot of experience towing yet, but my set up seems rock solid. At 5000 lbs of trailer it might be different, but I expect it will still be nice - a high towing capacity was one of the design goals for the vehicle.

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Phil Wehman
Caterham Super 7

Mitch - most of us will likely never tow/drive enough to make up for the considerable added expense of getting a diesel. I know I won't. I'm okay with it though - I bought it mostly because I it was what I wanted. We recently strapped Graham's 20' enclosed trailer and D Sports Racer (probably 5500lbs at least) to the back of my diesel Excursion and, aside from a slight decrease in his straightline speed, I literally could not tell the trailer was back there.

I have also towed about 4000 lbs worth of Miata and open trailer with a new-school Expidition. Half ton running gear, 5.4L gas V-8, towing package. Towed like a dream.

FWIW, driving 80mph towing the ITS car down to Roebling this last time I averaged 13.5mpg running at a good 80mph clip. When you're shopping, pay careful attention to the rear axle ratio. Mine's a 3.73; mpg can suffer considerably if you do a 4.10.