The Ultimate Check engine light Machine

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Mike, updates? Rod bearing time? BE bearings? Factory or ARP bolts? Any interesting stories so far?

Saw this original owner 2007 priced at $24,500: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=451077391&hideBackLink=true&Log=0. Pretty amazing car/engine with 6MT from original owner for that price it seems.

That one won't last long, go for it! Very similar to my car, and close to the same price I paid.

Love the car, it really strikes a perfect balance for me. No interesting stories, about 2k miles in and really has needed nothing so far. Doesn't burn any oil despite stories that "they all do". I'm going to tempt fate and wait until this winter for the bearings. Maybe send in an oil analysis shortly just to check.

If I have one complaint, it's that the car is geared too tall. Like 75 MPH in 2nd and 110 MPH in 3rd means it's almost impossible to responsibly enjoy the rev range from 6-8k rpm. Oh, I do spin it up in first from time to time, but it's a bit violent and is over too quickly

I know Dinan has a shorter diff gear available, but it's not enough of a "problem" to spend that dough.

OH and the other complaint ... it's waaaay too quiet. Trying to decide what to do, might just open 2 of the cans and take out all the insulation. The aftermarket options out there must be made of unobtanium for what they charge.

Mods I'm considering are an F10 M5 shifter and I think there's some stuff in the air boxes to take out to make it breathe a bit better. Otherwise, just enjoying the heck out of it!

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

We had a v10 m5 at our autocross in Cary today. Why did we only have one? Just sayin...

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:35 am

If you do go with an aftermarket exhaust (rear section I'm thinking about here), try to find one of the popular ones used. They are well bid, and you can likely resell it later for hardly any loss (perhaps a gain even). I'm slowly bringing my E39 M5 back to stock, and I quickly sold the Dinan exhaust I had on the car almost nine years. Back then Dinan had a deal where you got a free front strut bar with an exhaust. Leith (Dinan dealer) gave me 15% off the exhaust which brought it down to ~$1400, and I sold the strut bar right away for $400, bringing my net to $1000. Nine years later I sold the exhaust for $850 on the first day I put it for sale.

I wouldn't mind owning an E60 for awhile, but it's not happening anytime soon as I'm planning on selling the E39 soon and holding pat with what I've got.

I've never street driven the E60 M5, but I've driven numerous ones at multiple events at the Performance Center back 9-11 years ago. In 2007 when she was 18, Jackie won 3rd place in one there in an autox competition against ~30 cca members (many track rats, lol). We really enjoyed that event, especially the wet "rat race" competition they had on their alternate skidpad.

When my son and I did the same event there back in 2006, I instructed from the right seat and had a great time helping him learn weight transfer with throttle control. They had us running timed laps, and after a long WOT run down the back straight there hitting 4th in the SMG car, you had to brake massively down to about 35mph, turn into the skidpad transitioning from pavement to concrete, and then go 180 around it to reenter the track. On the far side of that turn, using a big (but not complete) throttle lift got just the right amount of additional front grip and rear rotation to setup the exit off the pad. Rolling back into the throttle right at the point was sublime, using all the track, V10 wailing at high rpm in 2nd, etc.

It's amazing how much fun a 3950-4000lb sedan with a wicked V10 can be in purely stock form. The car is vastly underrated and underappreciated by those who haven't really driven one for all it's worth. Stock for stock, it's a better handling car than the E39 M5 for sure.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

BriceJohnson wrote:

We had a v10 m5 at our autocross in Cary today. Why did we only have one? Just sayin...

Autocross is of no use to me, I have achieved the pinnacle of the pyramid of speed.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Seriously though, did you guys banish 16-17 year olds from autocross? I was SO looking forward to starting up again with Nathan in a couple of years. Too bad.

Is there any negotiation room with insurance? Is it time to start a "teen driving" school once a year which would relax the requirement? I'd actually be interested in helping start that up.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:17 am

I think they are looking for full driver license not the learner. Audrey did one this year she is 17 with full permit.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:17 am

Mike,

Ages ago when my son turned 15 in 2001 and then when Jackie turned 15 in 2004, I sent them to the 1-day Teen Driving School at the BMW Performance Center. A learner's permit is all that is required. It was a great beginning to their life piloting a car, and there was no other source that I could find for a 15 year old to experience what they did at the PC. Skidpad training, wet "rat race" competition that emphasizes fine car control, maximum ABS braking while turning starting at 70mph, repeated maximum braking exercises of all kinds in different situations, lane change avoidance exercises in both wet and dry, etc, etc. I was super impressed with the program and they both came away from that with a massive dose of understanding of a car can and can't do, etc.

It's a pretty intense day. They're are paired up and assigned cars, so you are always either driving or riding along (or in the classroom). The riding along part both of them learned a lot from watching their partner screw up and knowing it was coming.

Anyway, I couldn't find any other source for a 15 year old to get hands on experience of this magnitude. I felt the program was good enough that when they turned 17, I sent them back for the 2-day school even though Jackie had been autocrossing for a year already.

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:13 am

16 and 17 year olds are allowed to drive at Autocross.

They must have a Drivers license though, no permits.

Also, a parent or guardian has to be present to sign the minor waiver for them.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Chad Culbertson wrote:

16 and 17 year olds are allowed to drive at Autocross.

They must have a Drivers license though, no permits.

Also, a parent or guardian has to be present to sign the minor waiver for them.

Good to hear, thanks Chad! I must have been confused with the HPDE program, pretty sure 16 y/os are no longer allowed.

See y'all in 2020!

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:44 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Seriously though, did you guys banish 16-17 year olds from autocross?

Nope. Having talked to Bowie w.r.t. insurance, all participants must have a current, valid license. ('tho we don't actually check in person) I've turned away adults from rallycross because they didn't have a license. I'm not sure what the insurance requirements are for track; I suspect an "18+" rule is to ensure they have some prior driving experience.

BMWCCA runs the Tire Rack Street Survival school. However, due to the RPD facility needing repair, they've not had any classes for about 2 years.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:24 pm

I'm there are 2 kids under 18 racing SM with NASA now. The tracks sure don't care, not sure if we have some wiggle room with our insurance.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:40 pm

If you want car control training,car guys skid car.OR...Rallycross,wilson is not that rough..And gravel will teach you so much,so quickly ...You will learn techniques that will last.

I started autocrossing on my permit,dad rode shotgun with me..To make it legal and all,now..He rides wiht me,just because that is our system.SO I encourage all young drivers,to come race.
Many of my freinds are far younger than me,and race really hard.So age shouldnt be a barrier,yo uwill learn so much,so quickly..Then on the street,it will be nothing to them.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

We had a driver at our Cary autocross who had gotten his license two weeks prior to the event.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:02 pm

Missed you in Wilson,I was in rare form man.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Checking in:

5k miles later and nothing much to report. Hasn't burned a drop of oil. Planning to change it soon and get a blackstone analysis. Only oddity is a couple times I got some red battery light of death telling me the charging system isn't working. Goes away after a restart. I get a bit of a rattle when the brakes are warm and going over bumps, can't find anything loose, suspect rattling brake pads. Also get a bit of a steering wheel wobble when getting into the brakes at higher speed, so either have runout on a rotor or a bushing going south somewhere up front. Not bad enough to dive into yet.

Complaints:

- Fuel mileage is abysmal. I knew this going in. OBC says 13.9 or something. May have to do with how I'm driving it.
- Fuel range is also by association abysmal. Something like 200 mi. They should have shoved a larger tank in there somehow.
- Wish it was geared lower. Can't wind it out in 2nd gear without breaking most speed limits, and can't take it to redline in 3rd without going to jail in all 50 states.
- Feels like it needs a heavier shift knob. Too lazy to do anything about that

- Still way too quiet with stock mufflers. Got some Borla's off ebay, will be hacking them on at some point.

Really, overall, just driving it and enjoying the heck out of it. It's a nice car to drive whether you want to be coddled, or want to drive like a maniac. I love cars with dual personalities like that.

In other news, I bought a basket-case E46 M3 convertible to restore. Always wanted one of those (coupe purists, hate away).

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