Corn vs No-Corn

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:51 am

So pondering the thought of how my valve seals are starting to meet their maker, and knowing the s2000 in 2002 wasn't really tuned or designed for any ethanol, Im wondering if it would be better, safer, worth it to switch to 91 octane corn-free fuel rather than running 93 octane with 10% ethanol. Has anyone done any real world testing? Losing two RON is a little bit of a concern, but I know the s2000 was tuned for a minimum of 91 and still make peak power. Any thoughts on the idea? Let's assume you could get the at the same price per gallon for now.

BenjaminGuardiola · **Joined:** Wed May 14, 2014 8:31 am **Posts:** 84

Most marinas sell 93 octane with no ethanol.
Expect very high prices.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Here in Charlotte you can find 93 in non-ethanol at places other than Marinas. It's got a price uplift on it, but probably only $.30 a gallon over the ethanol laden 93. Download the "Pure Gas" or "Ethanol Free" apps for iPhone or Android to find stations around you with ethanol free gas. A lot of stations don't advertise it.

In a small engine with a carb and plastic fuel lines, I use non-ethanol stuff, but I'd be surprised if the valve seals are going because of ethanol in fuel in the last decade. - AB

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

Switching from E10 to E0 isn't going to do anything. You might get .4mpg more on the track.

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:38 am

Im more worried about the car sitting for a while and the ethanol having a negative effect on rubber bits like my valve seals and absorbing water.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

You're aggressively tracking the car; everything's a wear item.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:05 pm

It's not like the valves are sitting in a pool of fuel. The valves are dry of fuel probably within 2 minutes of shutting off the engine. - AB

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:57 pm

Valve seals are under the valve cover anyway, not down close to the valve head where they would be in contact with fuel.

E10 has been around a long time and i've never seen it hurt anything on a car.

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:38 pm

Well bought 24 gallons of some no name 93 octane corn free stuff tonight. Really inexpensive considering ($2.79/gallon). I did a water solvency test and here are the results: 93 no corn vs 87 w/ 10% corn from Shell. Note the cloudy haze...that's the ethanol binding with the water molecules.

ethanol free

E10

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:13 pm

Would you like me to pee in the jar for a 3rd comparison? :lol:

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Corn is a fuel like anything else. It has only shown to be a problem with certain materials. These materials were phased out long before your 2002 Honda was built. The other down side of ethanol is that it does not have the shelf life of pure gasolene. I ran my Mazdaspeed 3 on E15 when I was out west last summer. Being a turbo car, it seemed to run much better. E15 premium was cheaper than regular. That being said, the use of ethanol has to go up in cars. I have read articles and they seem logical, that octane ratings have to go up in order to allow our internal combustion engine's efficiency to improve. Because of turbo's and direct injection high compression engines, many more cars today require premium than in the past. That's why the price of premium has gone up so much in the last few years. I've heard it said that 98 octane may be the fuel of the future. Water in gas is not a detriment either. It assures a controlled flame front and helps reduce combustion chamber hot spots. I worked on water injection systems for turbocharged engines in 1976 whiles in college. BTW, what fuel does NASCAR run? Yes, it's E15 98 octane pump gas, not racing fuel. For once in a long while NASCAR may be a technology early adopter.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:11 pm

michaelsmiller wrote:

Corn is a fuel like anything else. It has only shown to be a problem with certain materials. These materials were phased out long before your 2002 Honda was built. The other down side of ethanol is that it does not have the shelf life of pure gasolene. I ran my Mazdaspeed 3 on E15 when I was out west last summer. Being a turbo car, it seemed to run much better. E15 premium was cheaper than regular. That being said, the use of ethanol has to go up in cars. I have read articles and they seem logical, that octane ratings have to go up in order to allow our internal combustion engine's efficiency to improve. Because of turbo's and direct injection high compression engines, many more cars today require premium than in the past. That's why the price of premium has gone up so much in the last few years. I've heard it said that 98 octane may be the fuel of the future. Water in gas is not a detriment either. It assures a controlled flame front and helps reduce combustion chamber hot spots. I worked on water injection systems for turbocharged engines in 1976 whiles in college. BTW, what fuel does NASCAR run? Yes, it's E15 98 octane pump gas, not racing fuel. For once in a long while NASCAR may be a technology early adopter.

That's good stuff Michael. Thanks for dropping some knowledge on me

- AB

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:14 pm

E85 is also good for a 5% bump across the board on Miatas. If it was available at more pumps here I'd be running it in my car.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

michaelsmiller wrote:

BTW, what fuel does NASCAR run? Yes, it's E15 98 octane pump gas, not racing fuel. For once in a long while NASCAR may be a technology early adopter.

NASCAR engines are rebuilt before every race. I don't think that's Brett's goal.

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