The German Myth, High Performance Automobiles

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:10 pm

I have been in Munich, the center for high powered autos, for a little over a week. Munich is notable as the home of BMW, Bayern Motor Werkes. I expected that I would see the best and the fastest that the German auto industry has to offer. The fact of the matter is that I have not seen the speed limit around Munich on the Autobahn exceed 140 Kph, 87 Mph. So far I have seen zero BMW M cars and only one Porsche 911. The BMW 3 series have no nomenclature that indicates what the engine size is. If you had never been a sports car fan, you would think that Porsche is primarily the builder of small to medium sized SUV’s. Surprisingly, the top engine in just about anything is 130 to 140 HP diesel 4 cylinders. These engines are found in BMW 3 series, Z 4, Porsche PanAmerica, Mercedes SLK, and Mercedes E class. The Ford focus has a 1 liter engine. Many people get a car allowance from their employers. That’s nice, but there is a hitch. Since employers pay the taxes on the cars, they have created lists with limited cars to choose from. Germany taxes cars based on carbon foot print. This means that low performance cars are much cheaper to own. In town, it’s not unusual to see 30 Kph speed limit signs on some fairly major streets. If that’s not enough, traffic cameras are everywhere so speeding is not an option, period. I’m hoping that what’s going on in Germany is not a precursor of our near future. With a limited demand for performance cars, I wonder how long German manufactures will continue to develop our kind of cars? For now, we need to be thankful for the phenomenal excess in horsepower we have.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:58 pm

I am not much of a world traveler, but I was in Europe (mostly UK and Germany) in 2013 and in general I saw the same, but... that is pretty much as I expected. Actually I expect it to be worse than what I saw (I expected more micro style cars). Given the price of fuel and taxes on larger displacement cars (which we don't have here) it should be no surprise. And if you look at sales numbers for someone like Porsche, they ARE (sadly) a SUV company as that is what people are buying. I think even in the US almost half of their sales is the SUV and if you add in the four door sedan, that is well over half. The new Macan model (I guess its either a mini SUV or crossover) will continue the trend.

When in Stuttgart at the Porsche Museum, the story was different as I did see quite a number of performance cars in and about that area (Porsche and otherwise). The same was true for my day at the Nurburgring, but you would expect that.

On the flip side, I also expected the driving habits of people on the Autobahn to be stellar. Given the reputation for much better driver education and respect to not cruising in the left lane. But, I found it to be not radically different than here in the US (people not paying attention at times, driving in left lane, etc.). However I only spent a handful of hours on the Autobahn. I guess here in the US, during that period you are likely to see someone acting like a complete jackass and autocrossing through traffic. I generally found that we could travel as fast as I cared to drive. However driving semi-fast in a straight line does just about nothing for me. So while I did go fast in the unlimited areas, I didn't try to peg out my rental. I was semi-paranoid about cameras, but just decided there was no reason to try to push the limit and generally just followed the speed limits.

I think that we (both as living in the US and auto enthusiast) have a very narrow view as to what the world is like from a "typical" automobile perspective. I think "we" are the exception. I agree it would be a more fun world if everyone was driving a high performance car. Make mine a Porsche 918.

Enjoy your time in Germany! My wife and I loved it and plan to go back soon as we can.

Richard

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:53 pm

Germany is a fascinating country,but i want to drive a trabant in berlin! Anyhow,it is probably like any country over in europe...You drive whatever does the job,peugoet,vw lupo diesel 1l,bmw 120d hatch..Vw gtd is what i woudl like in germany right now.The bmw 335d i would put in a ditch,the vw gtd is plenty quick,35-40+ mpg,and handles like a golf should.I think would be plenty,the porsche or someting would be great..But a poor boy like me,could never afford one..bmw hatch or something maybe,the 120d i have on ps3..I have one pegged out at 416 ft lbs torque.Now, I dont expect to have one,but 150 hp and 250 ft lbs and rwd handling..Woudl be cool,but in rain and snow which germany has alot..I think fwd diesel hatch woudl be cool,130 mph in the autobahn ina vw would be plenty.I have been roughly 110 120 mph,so that is realistically a fine thing for me.And i could beat it around the ring,and not kill my self.170 hp and more than 260 ft lbs,60 in 7 seconds..and golf handlng,i like ours.It just needs more power,it would be alot of fun.I come from fwd so it would not be that bad to me,The ser I got fifth in su2 with it.The golf did well yes?

anyhow,lupo gti 4 banger,golf gtd,really,the big bore boys would be great..But expensive,i would worry about crashing it.The audi a8l v8tdi twin turbo ,what a beast.But really,something more realistic would be just fine.The speed limit in fuquay is low usually,So it is not that bad to me .Audi quattro maybe,although if given a chance..Taking a old quattro swb around the woods,would be irressistable.Hero car to me..BMw makes all kinds of cars,four bangers ot v12..Something for any stage you want.A boxter would be fine wth me too.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:01 pm

None of this is new (well, except for the tax being based on carbon footprint, it used to be based on engine displacement).

You don't see alot of "old" cars, I think this is because of the super-strict safety and emissions inspections, it becomes too much of a PITA and an expense to keep oldish cars on the road.

On the Autobahn, I expected to see alot of "performance" cars blowing by me in the fast lane, but it was mostly large family cars, like Audi A8, BMW 7 series and the big Opels.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:59 am

Richard Casto wrote:

On the flip side, I also expected the driving habits of people on the Autobahn to be stellar. Given the reputation for much better driver education and respect to not cruising in the left lane. But, I found it to be not radically different than here in the US (people not paying attention at times, driving in left lane, etc.). However I only spent a handful of hours on the Autobahn.

Most of the time if you look at the license plate you will see that they are not German but from another country. The former eastern block country seem to be good at it.

Price of gas is a pretty good incentive to drive diesel or small displacement engine.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:39 am

BMW just announced all cars will be hybrid in the next generation.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:28 am

I for one would love to own a diesel BMW, with a six speed. Sadly, those don't get sent here.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:33 pm

Get out of Munich Mike! You need to get away from the big cities to see that wonderful unlimited speed sign. As far as M-cars and such, you will see more around Raleigh than most cities in Germany. Stuttgart, Frankfurt and Baden-Baden were areas where I saw more higher end cars.

As to the Autobahn drivers, it was by far the best experience of my life driving. I only witnessed one driver in the left lane but immediately signaled and moved over, and I never saw anyone tailgate or pass on the right, and we drove a lot over the space of two weeks back in 2010. I hope nothing much has changed since then since it was a great experience. I posted this before about one experience that would hardly ever happen here in the US: " One example of how drivers on the Autobahn are courteous and pay attention: We were going about 160kph in the middle of three lanes, when I was presented with a car doing maybe 120kph up ahead that moved into the middle lane to pass a truck and a car in the left lane perhaps closing at 200kph as I glanced in my mirror. I was just about to lift and brake when I noticed in my mirror that the fast closing car had matched my speed about 8-10 car lengths back. I intuitively signaled, moved left, passed the dude in front of me, signaled, moved right, and the BMW (debaged 5-series) accelerated on past."

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:05 pm

Chuck, It would be great to spend some time cruising the Autobahn. But here's the thing, it's snowing outside, I work 12 hours a day and then go out to dinner for 3 hours at night. That puts me back at the hotel at about 11:00 every night. The rental car cost 35 Euro a day, plus gas, plus 10 Euro to park it overnight at the hotel and another 10 Euro to park it all day at work. My subway ticket only costs 1.40 Euro. I think that this shows how things are so stacked against cars here in Germany. I did go into Munich today and saw 5 Porsche 911's and Cayman's, a good sign. Last weekend I went to the German Technical museum. Vincent would love it. They had an airplane motor that consisted of a block cast with two V8's with their cranks coupled together by a central drive gear. Each V8 turned the opposite direction. They had gear driven twin overhead cams with 4 valves per cylinder. To simplify the control of all of this, they ran the whole thing off of one humongous two barrel carburetor being fed by four turbochargers. I being a crude American engineer would just have done a single V12 with equivalent displacement. Oh, I think that it's called a Merlin. I also saw a motorcycle with a fixed crank radial 5 cylinder build into the front wheel. The axle is the intake manifold and the crank. This adds a whole new meaning to "sealed bearings". The only problem with the bike was that you had to cut the engine every time that you came to a stop. To start you would peddle the rear wheel like a regular bicycle until the motor on the front wheel caught and off you go. The bike was pretty fast for it's day. :lol:

I guess that I'll stop picking on German engineering. I'll have to come back to Germany on vacation to enjoy the driving.

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:43 am

steve remchak wrote:

I for one would love to own a diesel BMW, with a six speed. Sadly, those don't get sent here.

Did I notice that diesel fuel is 50% higher right now. Guess that is hurting sales.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:58 am

michaelsmiller wrote:

They had an airplane motor that consisted of a block cast with two V8's with their cranks coupled together by a central drive gear. Each V8 turned the opposite direction. They had gear driven twin overhead cams with 4 valves per cylinder. To simplify the control of all of this, they ran the whole thing off of one humongous two barrel carburetor being fed by four turbochargers.

So even German pilots have to deal with the dreaded CEL! :stick:

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:18 pm

clinehall wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

I for one would love to own a diesel BMW, with a six speed. Sadly, those don't get sent here.

Did I notice that diesel fuel is 50% higher right now. Guess that is hurting sales.

Americans have never warmed up to diesel, we can probably thank Oldsmobile for that, lol.

Apparently France is trying to push diesel out now too because of the air pollution, they get better mileage but apparently gasoline engines burn much cleaner. Another factor here too is that it seems like the manufacturers charge a premium for any diesel motor, I think the Eco Diesel in the Ram is something like a 4500 dollar option over the Hemi, combined with the increased maintenance and fuel savings end up not making up for it at all especially with the fuel being quite a bit more expensive.

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