honda s1500

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:54 am

Looks like a bastardized Solstice.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:05 am

RodneyWright wrote:

Looks like a bastardized Solstice.

It does have some serious "Solistice" going on.

Richard

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:22 am

I guess I am the only one who likes the looks of it. The first thing I saw was the inspiration from the S800 in the headlights/grille and aluminum trim pieces covering body seams on the fenders.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:23 am

They should first bring here the Civic type R.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11309166300 ... r-rendered

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:09 pm

Jordan Normark wrote:

I guess I am the only one who likes the looks of it. The first thing I saw was the inspiration from the S800 in the headlights/grille and aluminum trim pieces covering body seams on the fenders.

I get what they are trying to do there with the S800 look (I like the look of the S800 by the way). I think the problem is that with that artist conception is that it blends the lights and grill together in a way that it also looks very much like this...

In my mind I see more of the Toyota 2000 GT than Honda S800. Maybe if they seperated the grill from the lights, I would see more S800. And as mentioned above, it also looks very much like the Pontiac Solstice (particularly from the hood back).

Solstice...

I also think it is interesting that we have been putting so much stock into that artists rendering. I don't think that was sourced from Honda and it is likely completely off the mark. Here is the image from that initial article...

I also have to ask the question of... Is the days of something like an S800 gone? They were very simple no frills sports cars. It used to be OK to have a sports car that didn't have A/C and a bunch of other stuff. You gave up amenities to get the sportiness. Nowadays, people do want both. They want something that is both sporty and also makes a good daily car. Donnie makes a good point about how car companies are focused on efficiency and are making cars that are lighter than their predecessors, but I also strongly believe that material selection ($$) is a big part of that. So again someone could make something like a modern S800, but would it meet the price point? Sadly, I think it likely would be cheaper to produce and easier to sell a larger car. Especially if they have a price point in mind that is on the low end.

Richard

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:50 pm

This cover was the first place I saw it and the green CRZesqe t-top rendering looks interesting. Usually we hope the finished product looks like the concept, but I'm afraid this go-round will be the opposite. :wink:

IMO, the $25k pricepoint is ripe for more fun coupes.

Weight's vital but I don't really think that the overall dimensions of the car are going to control the weight more than the materials at $20k. Honestly, the only reason I think that the FR-S ending up being reasonably lightweight is illustrated in this photo.

Alec Moody · **Joined:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am **Posts:** 299

The mandatory tall hood lines kind of ruin the look of all small cars for me.

I wish someone would make a small sports car (no bigger than an NC) that did as good or better on both weight and power as a CSP prepped NA miata but while still being a normal street car. So basically a cheap front engine elise. Alternatively, a BRZ that was 15% smaller and 30% lighter with only 2 seats.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:25 am

Alec Moody wrote:

The mandatory tall hood lines kind of ruin the look of all small cars for me.

I wish someone would make a small sports car (no bigger than an NC) that did as good or better on both weight and power as a CSP prepped NA miata but while still being a normal street car. So basically a cheap front engine elise. Alternatively, a BRZ that was 15% smaller and 30% lighter with only 2 seats.

Well, if you're fine with mid-engine, Toyota *almost* had it with the last MR-Spyder. All it needed was the 2ZZ engine instead of the 1ZZ.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:44 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Alec Moody wrote:

The mandatory tall hood lines kind of ruin the look of all small cars for me.

I wish someone would make a small sports car (no bigger than an NC) that did as good or better on both weight and power as a CSP prepped NA miata but while still being a normal street car. So basically a cheap front engine elise. Alternatively, a BRZ that was 15% smaller and 30% lighter with only 2 seats.

Well, if you're fine with mid-engine, Toyota *almost* had it with the last MR-Spyder. All it needed was the 2ZZ engine instead of the 1ZZ.

--Donnie

I think in that original article it mentioned the outside potential for Honda to do a mid-engine car. I don't know the details of how Toyota did this with the MR-2 and later MR_Spyder. I assume they mostly just dropped a front engine drivetrain into the rear. The clear advantage of this approach is that it is very cheap to do (pull from the parts bin vs. engineer a totally new solution). I think that approach could be a winner if done right. The problem is that you don't want to pull a "Fiero" in that you pick the worst from the parts bin and then after the fact realize you have to rework the solution, or just don't rework it. (Based upon your comment Donnie, Toyota picked the wrong engine).

So I could see Honda dropping in something like the Fit drivetrain into a small mid-engine car. But would enthusiast go for that or would they want something sportier (i.e. more power). I would be on the fence on that one. I like my Fit and I could see a cheap mid-engine using the Fit engine working and being a fun car, but it would clearly not be able to go head to head with other in the category it would compete against such as a Miata or BRZ.

Richard

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:55 am

Plus with Formula Ford now using Fit L15s, I can see it being a smart move given its motorsports presence already being in flight.

EDIT: I take that back...I guess the L15 didn't quite stick.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Alec Moody wrote:

The mandatory tall hood lines kind of ruin the look of all small cars for me.

I wish someone would make a small sports car (no bigger than an NC) that did as good or better on both weight and power as a CSP prepped NA miata but while still being a normal street car. So basically a cheap front engine elise. Alternatively, a BRZ that was 15% smaller and 30% lighter with only 2 seats.

Well, if you're fine with mid-engine, Toyota *almost* had it with the last MR-Spyder. All it needed was the 2ZZ engine instead of the 1ZZ.

--Donnie

Another major gripe in my life, the 2ZZ engine absolutely should have found itself in the MRS, why that never happened is one of the most perplexing questions and one of the many reasons I hate Toyota to this day.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:37 am

JamesShort wrote:

Plus with Formula Ford now using Fit L15s, I can see it being a smart move given its motorsports presence already being in flight.

EDIT: I take that back...I guess the L15 didn't quite stick.

I don't follow FF too closely, but nearly half the grid at the 2013 runoffs are Honda-powered, and according to the rules I saw (which could have changed) are the Fit-based L15. How did it not quite stick?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:22 am

Steven Carter wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Plus with Formula Ford now using Fit L15s, I can see it being a smart move given its motorsports presence already being in flight.

EDIT: I take that back...I guess the L15 didn't quite stick.

I don't follow FF too closely, but nearly half the grid at the 2013 runoffs are Honda-powered, and according to the rules I saw (which could have changed) are the Fit-based L15. How did it not quite stick?

Hmmm, I've been reading competing information. Seems that Ford did 2 things after the introduction of the L15 to the FF spec: put the Fiesta 1.6L Duratec in the FF and started reproducing the Kent engine. So I thought they nixed the L15, so I guess not.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:43 am

well that's good news to have Ford back building engines. Amazing what a little competition can do, right? IIRC, the Fit conversions were/are very expensive, where a Fit-powered machine is priced near upper $20s and up, while an older Kent-powered one could be had for $10-15k, both depending on condition, updates, spares pkg, trailer etc. No idea where the Ford pricing is, but it may be a reasonable assumption that it is less fabrication-intensive to install. I'd have to read up on ApexSpeed to get better/current info.

<--in another/future life I would TOTALLY go for FF/CMod

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:01 pm

As a clarification regarding what is now called Formula F (it was also called Formula F a few decades ago). These run in CM for autocross.

Formula F engines
The only permitted engines are:
a. The Ford 1600 GT “Kent” pushrod “crossflow” as installed in the Ford Cortina in 1971 and later. The Kent engine specifications are contained in D.2.
b. The Ford 1600 GT “Cortina” engine as installed in the Ford Cortina through 1970. The Cortina engine specifications are contained in D.3.
c. The Honda Fit (L15A7) 1500cc overhead cam engine as installed in a Honda Fit (all models starting 2009). The Honda Fit engine specifications are contained in D.4.

The Honda Fit engine is required to run a specific intake restrictor and specific ECU to equalize performance as much as possible between the 1960's design Kent and the modern Honda. In top level SCCA and Pro racing the Kent engine and the restricted Honda appear to be VERY close. The rules require BOTH engines to be very close to "stock" with the Honda being the closest since modern manufacturing results in each production engine being essentially equal.

The rules have changed over the years for the Kent to address some parts shortage and engine life span issues plus Ford is now casting replacement blocks at least partially due to the use of the Kent in many non racing applications around the world. Major new parts (none of which mine has) include an improved crank, forged pistons, the new slightly stronger block, and an aluminum head (saves at least 15 lbs up high but does not make more HP).

New FF cars tend to be designed for the Honda for all the advantages of modern technology. Some popular older cars are worthwhile candidates for conversion. One relatively new older car, two drivers, at the Solo Nationals used the Honda. Honda sells a conversion kit for selected older cars (not mine). You can buy a complete engine with conversion stuff or you can buy a used engine and just buy the essentials to make it SCCA legal.

Europe and other parts of the world still have Ford sponsorship/support for the class so as a result there are classes for a wide variety of Ford engines from the old Kent to various new versions over the years.

Formula C (wings and wider wheels, etc.) also has two Ford engine choices. These run in BM for autocrosss.

Formula Continental Engines
The only permitted engines are:
a. The Ford 2 liter single overhead camshaft “NE” series engine or the 1971-74 Pinto/Capri 2 liter single overhead camshaft engine. The specifications are contained in D.5.
b. The Ford Zetec ZX3 2 liter dual overhead camshaft engine. The specifications are contained in D.6.

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