the anti-sportscar thread

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:37 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

Alternately forget the high gas mileage requirement, get a dd car you will like for the long term, and make up for the higher fuel cost with depreciation and property tax savings over a 10 year or more ownership. Been there, doing that. Of course this requires cars that will still look "good" (to you) and that don't require high dollar repairs after a few years.

We still daily drive our 97 Mustang. My 2012 Mustang replaced a 2001 Mustang. Our 84 Nissan 200 SX was a daily driver until about 2001 (now it is close to "LKQ" time). Our camper van is an 88 (with lots of refurbishing and repairs over the decades).

All good points. All cars depreciate at about the same rate, so the dollar value of depreciation is chiefly related to purchase price (domestics seem to depreciate a bit faster though...). Amortizing it over several years certainly takes the sting out of it but it's a sunk cost that is unavoidable until a car is fully depreciated...by then it's high mileage, loud/squeaky and of questionable heritage. That's why I am aiming for <$35k and preferably around 25-30k...even more preferable would be 1-2 year old car that's already taken 20% or so depreciation from new. Taxes are an unavoidable annoyance, but at least they are deductible if you itemize, and can be limited by the car's purchase price.

I may actually have to go to the local New Car show this fall....

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:41 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

Alternately forget the high gas mileage requirement, get a dd car you will like for the long term, and make up for the higher fuel cost with depreciation and property tax savings over a 10 year or more ownership. Been there, doing that. Of course this requires cars that will still look "good" (to you) and that don't require high dollar repairs after a few years.

We still daily drive our 97 Mustang. My 2012 Mustang replaced a 2001 Mustang. Our 84 Nissan 200 SX was a daily driver until about 2001 (now it is close to "LKQ" time). Our camper van is an 88 (with lots of refurbishing and repairs over the decades).

I just did that math and bought a 2003 Yukon. I still will drive the Mini most of the time and for the amount of miles I will be drivng this Yukon I can buy a lot of gas with the money I saved on something new with much better milage. If I really want good milage I could always ride the bike.

On a semi related note, I would like to see a good article (that does not have an ax to grind) about the real savings to the planet with Hybrids. One side says they will save the world, the other side says that the energy produced to build and recycle negates any saving. What's the real deal. Can anybody point me there?

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

I get why fuel economy is important to the earth, and to politicians, and for our future. What I don't get is why people let it weigh so heavily on their micro level requirements. Emotional needs I guess.

Case in point: At 10,000 miles per year, the difference in fuel cost between 30 and 35 MPG is $178 a year or $14 a month. Peanuts compared to the car payment, insurance, or depreciation. I'm with Dick, buy what you want and look at everything from a TCO perspective.

(PS - Unless you think gas will hit $10/gallon, then everything changes)

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:04 pm

Very true...But the difference between 22mpg premium (WRX) and 35mpg regular unleaded (Mazda3) is substantially bigger. For me, every penny saved is valuable. However, your point is well-made.

Don't forget: I listed mileage as the fourth factor--it's not the highest priority, but one of several.

TCO also means paying a lower upfront price for a car ($45k BMW vs $23k Mazda3) in addition to fuel savings, insurance/tax issues. There's also the cost premium of hybrid vs base model which for some doesn't hit breakeven until 6-8 years of ownership (based on my current driving profile)...for many models the hybrid variant is not worth owning on a TCO basis. This is where the Mazda3 or 6 starts to look appealing for a frontrunner as it is (a) not hybrid and therefore (b) does not have a big premium over the non-SkyActiv car for 2013 and (c) uses regular gas. The CT200h, Insight and Prius have no non-hybrid variant so that gets a little tricky. I think I would rather sit on hot spikes for 6 hours than own a Prius given its reputation, though..... :roll:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Damn you Steve, I casually go to mazdausa.com to look into the 3 and 6 and Skyactiv and when the diesel is coming to the US and now I have a 2013 hardtop club MX5 quote request sent in.....

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:02 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Damn you Steve, I casually got to mazdausa.com to look into the 3 and 6 and Skyactiv and when the diesel is coming to the US and now I have a 2013 hardtop club MX5 quote request sent in.....

I desperately want the new MX5/Alfa 4C to suck so I can feel good about keeping the S2000. Except the Alfa looks soooooo good. But, it's an Alfa so there's that.

edit: I have a sinking feeling that I will be very, very wrong....

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:09 pm

vw golf gtd.170 hp, 60 in seven or 8 seconds. 45 mpg turbo diesel. its coming soon according to vw. sounds fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6sWk0Jo0mA

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:04 pm

74mpg...

complete with CELs ablazing!

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2014-audi-a3-16-tdi-ultra-deals-out-74-mpg.html

naturally, not for US consumption...but it shows promise for the 2015 model.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

JamesShort wrote:

Damn you Steve, I casually go to mazdausa.com to look into the 3 and 6 and Skyactiv and when the diesel is coming to the US and now I have a 2013 hardtop club MX5 quote request sent in.....

This was me earlier in the year. I guess being broke is paying off while waiting for an ND? :v

Steve: Have you sat in a 2014 Mazda6? It's not a BMW, but I was extremely impressed. Also, the BMW 335d has more torque than an F-150 and gets 30+ mpg; I heard it also includes a kitchen sink.

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

What about a Hyundai Sonata hybrid? Or, depending on your commute length, a Leaf?

Or, just DD the s2000. 35k will buy a lot of gas :lol:

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:47 pm

Jeremy, I had the Sonata on the list but I think it was cuaght in a "mileage inflation" semi-scandal along with the Elantra.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/nov/02/epa-finds-hyundai-kia-overstated-gas-mileage/

Not too bad overall, and should be added back. Unfortunately I have not had a great service relationship with Johnson Hyundai/Subaru (they threatened to void my vehicle warranty after I put Bilsteins on the WRX... :roll:

) so I'd have to look elsewhere for a dealer.

The S2000 has 70k on the clock and I want to keep it as the low mileage car so i can sell it as "99% highway miles, driven mostly on Sundays" and not be dishonest :lol:

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

Steven Carter wrote:

Jeremy, I had the Sonata on the list but I think it was cuaght in a "mileage inflation" semi-scandal along with the Elantra.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/nov/02/epa-finds-hyundai-kia-overstated-gas-mileage/

Not too bad overall, and should be added back. Unfortunately I have not had a great service relationship with Johnson Hyundai/Subaru (they threatened to void my vehicle warranty after I put Bilsteins on the WRX... :roll:

) so I'd have to look elsewhere for a dealer.

The S2000 has 70k on the clock and I want to keep it as the low mileage car so i can sell it as "99% highway miles, driven mostly on Sundays" and not be dishonest :lol:

Does not compute.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:09 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

The S2000 has 70k on the clock and I want to keep it as the low mileage car so if in a fit of insanity I consider selling it I can claim "99% highway miles, driven mostly on Sundays" and not be dishonest :lol:

fixored. Thanks!

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

MikeWhitney wrote:

I get why fuel economy is important to the earth, and to politicians, and for our future. What I don't get is why people let it weigh so heavily on their micro level requirements. Emotional needs I guess.

Case in point: At 10,000 miles per year, the difference in fuel cost between 30 and 35 MPG is $178 a year or $14 a month. Peanuts compared to the car payment, insurance, or depreciation. I'm with Dick, buy what you want and look at everything from a TCO perspective.

This. Newish Mustang V8s make great daily drivers, torque kicks ass and the psyco-therapy provided by the sound of a V8 is quite a bargain at $200/year extra you spend on gas over a hybrid thing. Invest in yourself, screw the environments.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Les Davis recommends a V8. SHOCKING!

I hear a used Saturn Astra is a great car daily driver. . .

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