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no shit.

stupid, stupid car design meets road course.

http://www.nascar.com/news/110815/dhaml ... index.html

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Those arguments irritate the hell out of me. Like Keselowski whining about RA's safety barriers after he tore the hell out of his car in turn 1. Wouldn't be surprised if the France family isn't a little upset about the comments made about WG...


Oh, fwiw. I liked Boris Said before today. Today I think he is the man!

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2005 Mazda RX8 STX 11

NCR Solo Chair & Cape Fear Chapter Coordinator
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So do these teams have stock in the company that makes the SAFER barriers or something?

On the flip side, I've always been glad not to drive WG in an HPDE or time trial format. The margin for error is profoundly small with zero runoff room in some places. Even a very small error can end up in a nasty outcome given the guard rails practically right on the track. Might be fine for a race car, but not an HPDE event.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
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1975 CanAm 125MX2

the one time i drove at WG it rained so i didn't get to wring the car out. not that i could have back then anyway. but it appeared to me that if your car didn't have over 300 hp to the wheels getting close to the aarmco would be hard to do.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

There were plenty of places to hit it in my 110hp car I liked the track - yes there are places where you can hit the guardrail and hurt your car, but you don't have to drive at 11/10's and can at least minimize the chances. I don't think there was one serious off in the weekend I was there and 90% of the cars were Vettes, P-Cars, BMW's etc.

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)

But who says you have to drive your car at the edge in an HPDE? Any track has areas where you can go off and do damage to your car. Turn 5, 10, 17....... at VIR; T12, 1, 2, 10a at RATl, etc. You can choose to be careful there. There are runoff areas in many places at WG; just not there and a few other places.

OK, they could put SAFER barriers in places but the guys that were complaining the most were the NASCARP boys who do not road race well.

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)

I agree 100% and have always underdriven certain turns at certain tracks (especially turn 12 RA, VIR turn 10 and hogpen). However, it's been my observation over 30+ years of doing this stuff that many others do not respect such. Hence the mention of HPDE events on tracks with guardrails in some places just a few feet from the edge of the pavement. Few HPDE students have the car control skills to get themselves out of a pinch when needed (i.e. zero practice at such unless they are an avid autocrosser), so I'm betting they find those guardrails pretty easy to hit, one way or the other.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

If you have overdriven T10 at VIR, and 'made it' w/o incident, you'll likely not repeat that outcome. I've spun there once and was lucky enough that I didn't hit anything. Ever since my 9/10ths has turned into 7/10ths!

Even driving our $500 Lemons/Chump race car, I still don't want to hit ANYTHING with it.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

A couple of years back when I had an iRacing subscription, I practiced overcooking 10 many times. When you prepare for it, it's actually easy to simply open the wheel and drive off the outside into the grass. Turn in too early, and your gut knows it right away...I used that as an anchor in those practice sessions to simply mentally plot the path over and out the outside of the turn. I think most screw up in 10 by dropping a tire off and trying to save it. In most all those cases they know ahead of time they are going in too hot or off line, etc, and should have given up on the turn and driven straight off into the grass. Stuff that was really hard was practicing brake failure at key spots and trying to recover w/o damage...for a fast car, it was mostly not possible. Anyway, I found that part of using iRacing very informative including driving the track backwards where you realize all sorts of things you never know going the other way.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

I hate to disagree with you Rob, but some of the best road racers in the world are racing with NASCAR at these events and they don't win on any kind of regular basis. JP Montoya, AJ Almendinger, J Villeneuve, M Ambrose, Boris Said, Ron Fellows, all have been noted road racers and none of them have been dominant in the road races except for perhaps Ambrose who seems to be moving to the front of the pack lately. Saying that they (NASCAR drivers) can't road race is just wrong. Go to VIR next time they practice and time them on the north course. They are scaulding fast.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

But Berrrrnnnnnieee...a live rear axle cant possibly be faster than a car with independent suspension (or push rods vs OHC or awning vs easy up or bus engine vs generator).......IBTL .

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Some of them are fast, part of the reason the true road racers don't win frequently are that they are in inferior equipment, and they are not used to driving heavy cars that don't turn all that well on road courses. That's probably where Ambrose has an advantage is that he is used to driving the Australian cars around.

That said there are some good road racers who also are good on ovals in NASCARP, Gordon, (Jeff Robby doesn't count since he can't drive ovals ), Stewart, the Busches, etc. I just hate to see all the road courses changed to accommodate that series. The road racers (even the ones that crashed (Fellows) were not bitching.

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)

In MHO all the bitching was warranted. Having walls and fences that are perpedicular to the flow of traffic is asking for serious accidents, and that venue has a number of them.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I guess those whiny bitches would just balk at any street circuit, then.

Sheesh.


--Donnie

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