THSCC Forums

heard an interesting bit on npr tonight in an interview with donna shalala, apparently the dems got whacked very similarly in 1994, two years after clinton was elected. she said that in hindsight, it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. once again, interesting how history repeats itself.

Yeah, and how nobody learns from it. sigh.....

Dick,

I merely took issue with you assigning as "right wing" an independent exit poll where people self-identified as moderate, liberal or conservative. I would be interested in reading your research about how people's political ideologies have shifted, though, despite retaining conserv/mod/lib monickers--it's always a spectrum, so naturally shifting can and will occur. Shoot, Lincoln was a Republican so obviously the lines are not indelible.

Be careful, though....I'm not talking about social proclivities, only political. Clearly, society has grown more "permissive" than before. That discussion is not germane to this one.

How people define those terms is at best flexible. I would be proud to be called a "classical liberal" but no one goes by that terminology anymore. sigh...

Oh, and not all capitalists are right-wingers...Ted Turner, George Soros, the Chinese Politburo and many others are strongly Left. Don't fall into that trap! FWIW, the Chinese are fostering IT outsourcing companies to take away work from India (Check out companies like HiSoft Technologies and Camelot Information Systems.)

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... rcing.aspx

Take that, Bangalore!

(edit: full disclosure I am long CIS)

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Must .... not ... post .... Aw what the hell



Can we all stop being so cynical about politics and politicians for a minute?

Single party control of the oval office, house, and senate is a BAD thing. We see that over and over again. The party in power gets a free pass to shove all sorts of crap down our throats. I'd be just as worried about all-red as all-blue.

What we have NOW is a divided government. Things will be in gridlock for a while. Which is just FINE by me. More partisan bickering in washington means less opportunity for them to pass more un-read far-reaching law.

A return to check and balance, and difficulty in passing new national legislation. Just like the founders of the country wanted it -- leave the power to the states.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Huh? I never mentioned economic rules, but since you mention it, the Fugitive Slave clause and Interstate Commerce clauses immediately come to mind as some economic rules in the Constitution.

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Mike,
I would like to see the 10th make a comeback, but don't hold out too much hope for it. Anyone in the public arena/media forum who trots it out is immediately castigated as racist. (not in ANY way implying you are, BTW) That was one of the ways several media outlets tried to marginalize Tea Party-types in the latter part of 2009.

+1 overall, though. gridlock = better than single party, filibuster-proof majority.

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

I don't watch much TV, or maybe I'm an idiot, but what's the connection between the 10th and racism? Please don't tell me it has anything to do with the civil war..... How moronic. (I'd look it up but I wanted to be the first to ask a "stupid question")

Side note -- I was once accused of sounding "like Glenn Beck" on a forum, maybe this one. I had no idea who that was, had to go look it up....

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Mike,

Sadly, that's exactly right...like Godwin's Law but for the 10th amendment

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/200 ... amendment/

and this little nugget from CNN (scroll to 40 secs in for the meat)

http://theintelhub.com/2010/09/22/cnn-d ... on-racist/

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

I agree with Mike completely, and am actually kind of sick of all the political cynicism, too. It's gotten so en vogue to just rail the system as well as any attempt at any kind of political discussion. You're just a zealot or whatever. It's "uncool" to talk politics, which then means it's uncool to talk about any issue that turns into politics. So now we can't talk about healthcare AT ALL since the government has gotten so heavily involved.

F' that. We need discussion. We need debate. We need people to not feel like things were rammed down their throats. And most importantly, we need checks and balances.

Sadly, the internet has made it far too easily to take discussions to extremes and thus turned topics like this into complete taboo. But if WE don't discuss these things, who will?


--Donnie

_________________
My Blog

Agreed. I enjoy talking about politics--it comes with the territory as a Gov't/Constitutional Law major, and with an attorney for a brother. I am saddened that people get so bent out of shape over it-- it really is one of the most vital discussions one can have (the others being religion and money, but that's not currently on the docket) I know for me, having debates with well-considered positions is informative and serves either to bolster my ideas or show aspects that need further "flushing out." Anyone who wants a sparring partner is always welcome. Sometimes, I take the opposite side of an argument just for the sport of it (debate team in college---sorry), so I'm always game!

I still hold out hope that people with differing opinions can maturely discuss issues without resorting to ad hominem attacks or "Oh, yeah!? Well, so's your momma!" types of retorts.

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Some Random thought pertaining to this subject:

1. I know Steve R very well, heck I've spent several nights with him. He is not a democrat, he just hates Bush (no pun intended) and sees the the flow of money and lives into third world countries as a travesty and is all for personal freedoms. Steve my friend, you are a Libertarian.

2. Rob and Steve, on your comments on health care. Please explain to me how expanding the pool with people who are not paying into the "system" now and have no disposable income to speak of is going to lower health care costs. I believe pointing the finger at big bad insurance is correct, but in this sense. When there is a huge pile of money sitting out there that is guaranteed to pay, guess what? It gets billed and subsequently paid. Of course we have seen huge strides in health care since insurance (social as well as private) came on the scene. Before that medicine was a calling and not a profession for profit. Drug companies had no incentive to spend millions on cures, now they do. Now it is mostly a profit driven industry (not a bad thing just what makes the world go around) see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Now having government holding (not to mention acquiring) that big pool of money will be disastrous . I won't even mention that relatively no one is with out health care now, just go to a local emergency room and see who is getting treatment for what and then find out if they are paying for it. opps, mentioned it.

3. So very accurate, so many of people who are complaining are subsidized by government now. My Sister who moved to an upperclass neighbor hood when her husband was given a juice retirement from GM when he was 53, is now bitching because she has to pay for health care now. The buyout apparently didn't cover that. We are so far down this slope I am concerned if we can stop the slide. Perhaps we need to take over Afghanistan for their batteries so we can have something to fun our economy on that will pay this huge bill that is coming.

_________________
2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.clinehallagency.com

Seriously? Are you suggesting that to save money, people should have just voted for the Republican candidate? Are we at the point that we should throw away democratic (small "d") principles just to save money? I am sure if we compromise our values we could save even more money.

I am assuming you lean toward the right, so lets put the shoe on the other foot. Pick your favorite win for the Republicans and lets say that person died just prior to the election and would the right answer have been to just say the Democratic candidate should win? Would you have been OK if Marshall had won by default over Burr?

My point is that there is a cost to democracy. We have to put up with the sewage that is election time TV ads. We have to deal with loud mouth extremest who suck up all of the oxygen and make it hard to have real political discussions. We have to deal with the inevitable corruption of the system no matter how well we try to design it. And we occasionally have to hold special elections when people die or resign.

To the unsaid point of how costly a special election is. I would love to see a revamp of the voting process. How we vote today uses a process designed decades or centuries ago. Fast forward 100 or 200 years. Will we be slogging our way down to a central polling station to vote? I expect and hope not. At some point I expect that voting will be a process that you can do from any location on this planet or elsewhere. Use your smart phone (or whatever they will call it then) and pick your candidates. Heck, you could vote at any time and be allowed to change your pick right up until the very last second!

What I hope is a side effect of this is more involvement from the general public. If voting is as easy as it could be, then maybe there will be less apathy toward the actual process of casting your vote. And of course, it might not cost much to hold special elections.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

It took to the 4th sentence to blame Bush, nice.

_________________
02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I thought they had another word for that. Not that there is anything wrong with that....

_________________
02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Steve, I am assuming you are referring to the 14th Amendment and the Citizenship clause that was ratified in 1868. It was a good amendment, but was expanded by legislation over the years, mostly for the good, until 1968. It is now being used in a way not intended by those who ratified it in 1868.
http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_ ... ntent.html

_________________
Rubbin' is Racin'