Live LeMons feed is up

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:20 am

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/24-hour-lemons-south

clinehall · **Posted:** Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:52 pm

been busy all week end. Report please!

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:18 am

I heard Magnum ran 3rd most of Saturday and some of Sunday, then lost all but 3rd gear. They finished 5th.
I say that is good driving and smart pit stops! Congratulations.
Now the bad news. An E30 won again. I'd say they'll slap a 10 or 20 lap penalty on any E30 that shows up in the future. We got a 10 lap penalty in May jut because we had won before and showed up again. Jay forgot that since the win we had blown up, and not finished higher than 25th two other times. We could add a dnf to that list now. He would need to give us 20 laps to make us competitive.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:28 am

It was actually 2nd gear that crapped out on the Prelude. Congrats to the guys for another good, mechanically-limited finish.

How did Grim Reaper do, Mark?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:10 am

WalterHouston wrote:

We got a 10 lap penalty in May jut because we had won before and showed up again.

I thought it was because you didn't have your lies down well enough and got caught replacing some parts.

You guy should do an Amish theme and all wear long beards, maybe they won't recognize you.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:08 am

They gave the Super Trooper E30 that won the may race zero penalty laps this time. I'm happy to say they only finished one place ahead of us this time (again) despite our transmission issues.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:15 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

WalterHouston wrote:

We got a 10 lap penalty in May jut because we had won before and showed up again.

I thought it was because you didn't have your lies down well enough and got caught replacing some parts.

You guy should do an Amish theme and all wear long beards, maybe they won't recognize you.

we got tagged 10 laps because Jay assumed we were going to repair / replace our motor and he lowered our residual value to facilitate that fix.

apparently he was having a PMS moment when he personally BS Inspected our car. the Judges were prepared to wave us thru with no laps. we do not have a target on our backs.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:47 am

After doing both LeMons and Chump events now, I can 99% say I will never return to a LeMons race. What a drama! If I wanted to watch a soap opera, I'd just stay at home with the remote in my hand.

I am certain that once Chump gets as big as LeMons, it will probably go the same route. At least for the next couple of years, it will continue to be fun, clean racing without needless black flags and a bunch of grown men running around in dresses making up rules because they were picked on as kids.

We did make a spectacle of their whole BS inspection by dressing Graham up as the illegitimate son of Fred Sanford for BS Tech with the 1966 Chevy truck. LOL, it was funny for a grown man to take MadDog 20/20, pickled porks feet, pickled eggs, Ripple, Schlitz Malt Liquor, etc. for a bribe but then run from a watermelon. And the kiss Graham gave Jay at the end of the debacle was excellent.

And when they slapped 100 laps on the Enterprise (which was rightly deserved, but that car is out there for show anyway), we asked them if that was the best they could do and we were happy to settle with 10,000 penalty laps. Beat that ya bunch of cheaters!!!!!

I'll see everyone at the next Chump events, you guys can keep this crappy example of crapcar racing. I just want to race.....

-Kevin

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:01 am

Oh, I almost forgot, we did win one of the two Judge's Choice awards. $500 for the judges loving "The Big Ghetto Skank Tank". That thing is a raging piece of crap. The best thing that happened for that car all weekend was all of the rain on Sunday. We could actually pass cars in our 4500lb 1974 Detroit Wonder.

-Kevin

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:06 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:

We did make a spectacle of their whole BS inspection by dressing Graham up as the illegitimate son of Fred Sanford for BS Tech with the 1966 Chevy truck. LOL, it was funny for a grown man to take MadDog 20/20, pickled porks feet, pickled eggs, Ripple, Schlitz Malt Liquor, etc. for a bribe but then run from a watermelon. And the kiss Graham gave Jay at the end of the debacle was excellent.

Please tell me there is video of that. I LOL'ed when I approached the truck on course Saturday because I had not seen it in the paddock.

It was also fun to watch you guys drift the USS Enterprise in T14 in the rain. That car is a beast for sure.

As I've told a few others, if you want a race that is 'fair', Lemons is not for you. Once you know how to play Jay's game you can do quite well. In our last three Lemons races in the Prelude we have finished 5th, 2nd, and 5th. Drive like the guy you had in the iSuck Escort and it doesn't end up too well.

To be fair, I enjoyed the 'racing' rules in Chump Car more, but add three times as many cars and it wouldn't have been so pretty letting people 'race'.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:23 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:

Oh, I almost forgot, we did win one of the two Judge's Choice awards. $500 for the judges loving "The Big Ghetto Skank Tank". That thing is a raging piece of crap. The best thing that happened for that car all weekend was all of the rain on Sunday. We could actually pass cars in our 4500lb 1974 Detroit Wonder.

-Kevin

and there is your contradiction in terminology Kevin. all racing series have rules to be followed and enforced at the whim of the organizers. it is up to the participants to play within the rule set. i will admit some times LeMons appears to be operating on the fly, but i believe that is also intentional disruption of team routines.

i can cite numerous examples of posts regarding Chin Motorsports' entry into the open market as being "too loose and fast" with safety and rules enforcement.

NASA has gotten a bad rap at times over the years for looking the other way so to speak.

ChumpCar is playing loose and fast with enforcement. with 20 - 30 cars on the track they can afford to look the other way sometimes.

i enjoy both series. but the truth is, with LeMons you have to be on your best behavior to finish at the top of the standings. and yes the penalties are meant to be somewhat humiliating. they are designed to grate on "real racer" ego and macho issues. the idea is 'if you can't laugh at yourself, you don't really understand LeMons". if the whole thing irritates someone, then LeMons has achieved its intended goal.

the Sanford & Son truck was way cool. i'm sorry i missed the BS Inspection.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:46 am

VK,

We added your feedback to me on his driving to his lack of ability to get dirty in the pits and voted him off the island, so to speak. He will not be driving with us again. We have no tolerance for people that cannot help out with the cars and also cannot abide by our pre-agreed upon directives to save the cars for the next guy (and Sunday).

Steve,

My point is I am not inclined and really do not like being a part of a badly written high school drama. I have no complaints with black flags for idiots that do stupid things. And we spun the truck 5 times this weekend, twice we with me driving it on Sunday, so we did some stupid things as well. I talked my way out of the 4th and when I looped it the second time for its 5th black flag, I went straight to the paddock and parked it for the rest of the day. I found the entire left side of the rear suspension broken, so I will chalk it up to mechanical. But since I spun twice in one day, which is not like me, I also parked myself and never got back in a car.

What I don't like is when someone punts your car in the rear and then you get black flagged. Or you get blacked flagged only to be told in the penalty box, "We don't know what you did, but you have to unload this greasy engine block from the back of this greasy truck before you can go back out on track." That is absolutely ludicris.

And seeing a grown man run around all day in a black cloak with an attitude of "You cannot overule MY authority!" just abolutely irks me. Reminds me of the 18 year old Security Police in the Air Force that we picked on their entire lives and suddenly have an M16 and a badge and AUTHORITY. Good riddance.

I fully understand the need to keep people safe. Are you forgetting the function I perform for more than one track organization??? One of the reasons I like Chump is because in THREE races with Chump, I never had any contact with anyone. TWICE on Saturday, I had a LeMons driver hit me. Every single one of our 5 vehicles came away from the weekend with marks.

What these crapcar racing organizations need to do is limit car count to something reasonable (which ChumpCar has done to date since they are lesser known), hand out penalty laps for cheats by having legitimate people that know what they are looking at, AND THEN AWARD THE WINNER OF THE RACE TO 6TH PLACE or something equally non-competitive. That will eliminate everyones desire to run balls out. I say at the end of the race, put the top 10 teams in a hat and randomly draw the winner. Now that would be crapcan racing.

In any event, congrats to the Magnum PU as well as the Duff Beer guys for a good showing. I was never into the silly side of adolescence and LeMons is just full of it. We won't be returning and I am certain we will not be missed. Or at least I won't be there. That scene just isn't for me. But at least I can say I gave it a try.

-Kevin

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:06 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:

VK,

We added your feedback to me on his driving to his lack of ability to get dirty in the pits and voted him off the island, so to speak. He will not be driving with us again. We have no tolerance for people that cannot help out with the cars and also cannot abide by our pre-agreed upon directives to save the cars for the next guy (and Sunday).

Steve,

My point is I am not inclined and really do not like being a part of a badly written high school drama. I have no complaints with black flags for idiots that do stupid things. And we spun the truck 5 times this weekend, twice we with me driving it on Sunday, so we did some stupid things as well. I talked my way out of the 4th and when I looped it the second time for its 5th black flag, I went straight to the paddock and parked it for the rest of the day. I found the entire left side of the rear suspension broken, so I will chalk it up to mechanical. But since I spun twice in one day, which is not like me, I also parked myself and never got back in a car.

What I don't like is when someone punts your car in the rear and then you get black flagged. Or you get blacked flagged only to be told in the penalty box, "We don't know what you did, but you have to unload this greasy engine block from the back of this greasy truck before you can go back out on track." That is absolutely ludicris.

And seeing a grown man run around all day in a black cloak with an attitude of "You cannot overule MY authority!" just abolutely irks me. Reminds me of the 18 year old Security Police in the Air Force that we picked on their entire lives and suddenly have an M16 and a badge and AUTHORITY. Good riddance.

I fully understand the need to keep people safe. Are you forgetting the function I perform for more than one track organization??? One of the reasons I like Chump is because in THREE races with Chump, I never had any contact with anyone. TWICE on Saturday, I had a LeMons driver hit me. Every single one of our 5 vehicles came away from the weekend with marks.

What these crapcar racing organizations need to do is limit car count to something reasonable (which ChumpCar has done to date since they are lesser known), hand out penalty laps for cheats by having legitimate people that know what they are looking at, AND THEN AWARD THE WINNER OF THE RACE TO 6TH PLACE or something equally non-competitive. That will eliminate everyones desire to run balls out. I say at the end of the race, put the top 10 teams in a hat and randomly draw the winner. Now that would be crapcan racing.

In any event, congrats to the Magnum PU as well as the Duff Beer guys for a good showing. I was never into the silly side of adolescence and LeMons is just full of it. We won't be returning and I am certain we will not be missed. Or at least I won't be there. That scene just isn't for me. But at least I can say I gave it a try.

-Kevin

i understand and respect your opinion Kevin. but personally i see no need or the likelihood of changing LeMons. they are the ultimate take it or leave it organization.

you should check out some of my video from the race in 2009. VK swears he can hear me leaning on the orange crown vic all the way thru the 1-2 crossover. and BTW, during my saturday stint i went thru turn one with all four wheels in the dirt. some how i got away with that one. things could have turned out much differently for us.

i hope you reconsider at some point. if i can get back out there i would enjoy racing against you.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:08 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:

VK,

We added your feedback to me on his driving to his lack of ability to get dirty in the pits and voted him off the island, so to speak. He will not be driving with us again. We have no tolerance for people that cannot help out with the cars and also cannot abide by our pre-agreed upon directives to save the cars for the next guy (and Sunday).

No big deal, I just thought you should know since I was sure it was not you, Graham, or Morris who was driving at the time. After a while you just 'know people' and I knew it wasn't any of you three. We have had a few 'guest drivers' on our team as well, and if we even thought they 'might' drive like that they would never have been allowed to drive.

Kevin Harvey wrote:

One of the reasons I like Chump is because in THREE races with Chump, I never had any contact with anyone. TWICE on Saturday, I had a LeMons driver hit me. Every single one of our 5 vehicles came away from the weekend with marks.

Again, you can't compare 30 cars on a 1 mile track to 103 in the same space. If Chump were to have that many cars you would see more contact...bet on it. As far as getting tagged and flagged without being at fault, I understand your frustration there. However there is one other way to look at it from their perspective. It it quite difficult for the corner workers to determine who is at fault when there are so many cars out there so Jay and Co. has choosen to punish both. I don't agree with this, but I understand it.

The only rule I really have a problem with in Lemons is being penalized for avoiding contact, like going four wheels off to avoid a car who has spun. Sometimes they will let you slide, but not often if they witness it. If we were penalized every time we dropped a wheel at VIR with Chump we would have been better off at home!

As far as the 'spectacle' of Lemons (humiliating punishments, costumes, etc) you either 'get it' or you don't. Nothing wrong with either IMO. Some of it is quite funny (which it is meant to be) and has nothing to do with racing. Lemons is about 70% crazy fun, and 30% racing. If you want more 'racing' Chump is clearly a better fit, and there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I can appreciate both.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:15 am

Kevin - I've read several "I'm not going back to LeMons" comments from folks lately, and I understand. It's kind of funny what Jay is doing, and while it seems to alienate some, there seems to be a steady stream of others willing to play the game. I guess he still has supply and demand on his side right now.

This is just my opinion, but what he seems to be doing is throwing plenty of random curveballs with rules and judgments to make sure that you can't just get the formula down and repeat the same thing every event. He really wants the spectacle of it to shine through, more than just the racing.

It almost seems as if the more serious you take the racing end of the event, the more likely they are going to try to cross you up.

The "hate on the e30" is something I kind of understand...and I kind of don't understand. Obviously, I do have a dog in that particular fight. The more penalty laps are thrown at the cars by default, the more you push away some of your good paying customers. However, I do see the point of trying to limit a bunch of boxy little Bavarians consistently finishing at the pointy end of the standings. It's not good for the "spectacle" business.

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