More Mustang stuff....GT vs M3

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Sean O'Connell wrote:

no matter what if the keys to both were laying in front of me i would pick up the set for the M3 every time no questions asked.

Really?!? So you wouldnt even give the mustang a chance to confirm/deny your bias? I mean its likely your bias would provide you plenty of nits to pick so that you wouldn't be won over by the mustang so its probably no real danger to give it one shot. All I can say is that I left my last shreds of fanboism and brand loyalty behind nearly A decade ago and haven't missed them one bit.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:43 pm

I always held the LRA suspension against the Mustang, but after seeing this, I have to drop that. Plus, Ford still lets people check their own oil right? Not having a dipstick turned me off new BMWs awhile back.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 pm

Sean O'Connell wrote:

if the keys to both were laying in front of me i would pick up the set for the M3 every time no questions asked. i dont think thats a surprise to anyone here.

I agree with Sean, I'd pick the M3 also....... then sell it and buy a new Z06 or ZR1 and blow the doors off both those POS . Vette's eat ponies and poop strudel.

Sean O'Connell · **Posted:** Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:44 pm

Les i guess i could give it a try. i know lots of people mock me for my brand loyalty but i think i've got a damn good reason. and i do plan to buy an american truck in the near future, it might only be to pull a trailer but still.

Steve dont be surprised if dipsticks become a thing of the past just like corroborators, cat less exhaust systems and gas tanks that vent to the atmosphere. the federal government is not done cracking down on emissions. a dipstick tube still vents to the atmosphere after the car is turned off. hell bmw has added a charcoal filter in the intake after the air filter on all current production cars to eliminate crankcase vapors from being emitted out of the intake after the engine is tuned off.

Bernie your just as bad as me, but i suppose thats ok because its an american car?

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:47 am

This is funny. :lol:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her kid) no matter how well it does against an M3. Just not enough status or perceived engineering quality or whatever actual special stuff that the Mustang doesn't have (is there any?). The most they will do is complain that BMW should have thrown more money at making the M3 faster. :lol:

This kind of comparison is mostly about selling magazines and Ford ads. Followed closely about how it will make potential Mustang buyers feel better about the fact that most of us cannot afford an M3 . . . even if we did want one.

What is kind of funny is that an M3 used to be a relatively down to earth hot rodded 3 series . . . sort of like the faster Mustang versions. Now it is a relatively small high performance luxo barge. :cry:

Mustangs are still what M3's used to be. :wink:

But what do I know. :oops:

I drive slower cruder Mustangs and "race" a real race car. My idea of "status" has always been a popular sporty/sports car like Mustangs and Datsun Z's that the "common" man, woman, or teenager can relate to. Real automotive status begins with things like Ferrari and Lambo. :lol:

M3's just look like slightly modified 3 series that are so common around here.

Speaking of Ferrari and Lambo, did anyone see White Collar last night?

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:31 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

This is funny. :lol:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her kid) no matter how well it does against an M3. Just not enough status or perceived engineering quality or whatever actual special stuff that the Mustang doesn't have (is there any?). The most they will do is complain that BMW should have thrown more money at making the M3 faster. :lol:

I suspect that there is a large market of people that can't afford an M3, but want M3 like performance. News articles like this will get the attention of those customers.

I also completely agree with you about the current M3, they haven't done enough to keep it on top of it's game. Previously, the M3 was compared to the vette when it was taken to the track. Now, even Mustangs and Cadillacs are beating it. It's almost an easy target..

Sean, brand loyalty is really only useful for limiting your options. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think most people "mock you". From what I hear, most people in this club have a great deal of respect for you.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:45 am

Sean O'Connell wrote:

Bernie your just as bad as me, but i suppose thats ok because its an american car?

I'm not sure it's bad Sean. But the point of the original video was performance. The most bang for the buck on the track is and has been for the past eight or nine years the chevrolet corvette. It's in a class by it self, to get comperable performance you'd have to pay twice as much thats why its my car of choice. I don't drive it daily, and I rarely take it on long trips. If I were looking for a car to do that with, the BMW would be high up on my list, If I were after an inexpensive daily driver that gave good performance and offered a somewhat sporty look the Mustang would be on my list. So I wouldn't say I'm stuck in a rut on my car preference. I own a ford pickup for beating around with a chevy silverado for hauling a lincoln navigator for long trips a mini for auto cross,amiata for autocross and track. Each has it's place but at the top of the heap for looks style power performance and cost it's the vette hands down.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:52 am

Bernie Baake wrote:

I'm not sure it's bad Sean. But the point of the original video was performance. The most bang for the buck on the track is and has been for the past eight or nine years the chevrolet corvette. It's in a class by it self, to get comperable performance you'd have to pay twice as much thats why its my car of choice. I don't drive it daily, and I rarely take it on long trips. If I were looking for a car to do that with, the BMW would be high up on my list, If I were after an inexpensive daily driver that gave good performance and offered a somewhat sporty look the Mustang would be on my list. So I wouldn't say I'm stuck in a rut on my car preference. I own a ford pickup for beating around with a chevy silverado for hauling a lincoln navigator for long trips a mini for auto cross,amiata for autocross and track. Each has it's place but at the top of the heap for looks style power performance and cost it's the vette hands down.

I've autocrossed the C6 for two years and as far as performance goes, it's pretty incredible, but there is not a new Corvette out there that can touch the Mustang in $$ for performance. You can pick up an '11 Mustang GT for $35k. You can't get a Z51 packaged Corvette anymore so you have to pay the premium and get a Grand Sport.... to the tune of $55k. Eff that. The Mustang is .2 second slower to 60 mph and a little slower in the quarter mile, but for $20k, that's a lot of tires, brake pads and track entries. Even the base model C6 is $10-$15k more. No thanks

The thought behind selling my STi and buying a '11 Mustang is a strong possibility. - AB

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:51 am

Dick Rasmussen wrote:

Quote:

This is funny. :lol:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her KID.)

You see, Bernie. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:41 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

I've autocrossed the C6 for two years and as far as performance goes, it's pretty incredible, but there is not a new Corvette out there that can touch the Mustang in $$ for performance. You can pick up an '11 Mustang GT for $35k. You can't get a Z51 packaged Corvette anymore so you have to pay the premium and get a Grand Sport.... to the tune of $55k. Eff that. The Mustang is .2 second slower to 60 mph and a little slower in the quarter mile, but for $20k, that's a lot of tires, brake pads and track entries. Even the base model C6 is $10-$15k more. No thanks

The thought behind selling my STi and buying a '11 Mustang is a strong possibility. - AB

I haven't seen the 11 stang on the track yet but I'm willing to bet that C5 Z06 will out run it on the track, and they (C5 Z06) can be had for under 25K . So if we're talking new auto I conceed your right in cost vs performance . But I don't believe you have to go to a new car to get the kind of performance that will keep you in front of the M3 or the stang on the track.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

DickRasmussen wrote:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her kid) no matter how well it does against an M3. Just not enough status or perceived engineering quality or whatever actual special stuff that the Mustang doesn't have (is there any?). The most they will do is complain that BMW should have thrown more money at making the M3 faster. :lol:

i'm pretty close to bmw's "ideal" m3 buyer - under 45yo, bmwcca member, frequent track driver, previous m3 owner - but even if i had 55k to spend on a new car i'd buy the mustang over the current m3 in a heartbeat. i have plenty of complaints about the m3 but it's not that they haven't thrown enough money at it, it's that they've thrown too much. meanwhile ford has obviously done a bang-up job on the mustang and it shows.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:42 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her kid) no matter how well it does against an M3. Just not enough status or perceived engineering quality or whatever actual special stuff that the Mustang doesn't have (is there any?). The most they will do is complain that BMW should have thrown more money at making the M3 faster. :lol:

i'm pretty close to bmw's "ideal" m3 buyer - under 45yo, bmwcca member, frequent track driver, previous m3 owner - but even if i had 55k to spend on a new car i'd buy the mustang over the current m3 in a heartbeat. i have plenty of complaints about the m3 but it's not that they haven't thrown enough money at it, it's that they've thrown too much. meanwhile ford has obviously done a bang-up job on the mustang and it shows.

Jason,

I understand. I guess I was assuming the typical "street" M3 or many other high end luxury/performance cars buyer. Since these kind of cars have gone "up market" in relative price, complexity, and luxury level (beyond what cars in general have done) I think their "ideal" buyer has changed from guys like you. What you or I want is a Performance car with decent modern "luxury" and "technology" such as a Mustang, Vette, Z, or Camaro, etc. have. Probably the Porsches also except their price point is so darn high (makes them exclusive :wink:

). Of course, the "money" is with the guys who want to "own" a new M3 and be seen in it and brag about it and drive it fast where they "shouldn't". True with Mustangs, etc. too but at a lower price/status level. :lol:

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:54 pm

Bernie Baake wrote:

I haven't seen the 11 stang on the track yet but I'm willing to bet that C5 Z06 will out run it on the track, and they (C5 Z06) can be had for under 25K . So if we're talking new auto I conceed your right in cost vs performance . But I don't believe you have to go to a new car to get the kind of performance that will keep you in front of the M3 or the stang on the track.

But we aren't just talking about track stuff either, yet I will concede the C5Z06 is a better track car. As an overall car, while it's performance isn't quite as good, in my opinion the Mustang looks better than a C5Z06 and it's interior is world's better. Hell even the C6 interior was an enormous improvement over the C5, but the '11 Mustangs is nicer. - AB

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Aaron Buckley wrote:

You can't get a Z51 packaged Corvette anymore so you have to pay the premium and get a Grand Sport.... to the tune of $55k. Eff that.

Okay, that's just stupid on GM's part IMO and unprecedented since the 80s I believe. I think there has always been either a Z51 or Z07 suspension package available on the base Corvette. That's a sending a big "screw you" message to Covette guys on stricter budgets that want to use their car for something other than boulevard cruising and hurts the bang for your buck factor a lot. The Grand Sport package is cool and all, but at that price premium it is not a suitable replacement for a Z51 option. That's very disappointing.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

DickRasmussen wrote:

Jason Tower wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

Essentially no likely M3 buyer is even going to consider buying a Mustang (except maybe for his/her kid) no matter how well it does against an M3. Just not enough status or perceived engineering quality or whatever actual special stuff that the Mustang doesn't have (is there any?). The most they will do is complain that BMW should have thrown more money at making the M3 faster. :lol:

i'm pretty close to bmw's "ideal" m3 buyer - under 45yo, bmwcca member, frequent track driver, previous m3 owner - but even if i had 55k to spend on a new car i'd buy the mustang over the current m3 in a heartbeat. i have plenty of complaints about the m3 but it's not that they haven't thrown enough money at it, it's that they've thrown too much. meanwhile ford has obviously done a bang-up job on the mustang and it shows.

Jason,

I understand. I guess I was assuming the typical "street" M3 or many other high end luxury/performance cars buyer. Since these kind of cars have gone "up market" in relative price, complexity, and luxury level (beyond what cars in general have done) I think their "ideal" buyer has changed from guys like you. What you or I want is a Performance car with decent modern "luxury" and "technology" such as a Mustang, Vette, Z, or Camaro, etc. have. Probably the Porsches also except their price point is so darn high (makes them exclusive :wink:

). Of course, the "money" is with the guys who want to "own" a new M3 and be seen in it and brag about it and drive it fast where they "shouldn't". True with Mustangs, etc. too but at a lower price/status level. :lol:

this isn't just true of the m3 but of the entire bmw line. personally i think bmw has lost their way and while their desire to increase sales may have worked in recent years it has also alienated their core audience and diluted their reputation. now if you'll excuse me i have to load the e30 on the trailer and head to vir to drive my "real" bmw

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