More Mustang stuff....GT vs M3

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:33 pm

James I don't think (I hope not at least) that people are as defensive as you feel that they're being. I think we're all just mostly bench racing and having a little fun.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

JamesShort wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Got a ride in the beast last night and it is fast, real fast. Maybe there were a couple spark plug wires pulled on the one James test drove?

Like I said, I drastically underestimated my WRX, but as I found out the performance stats for stopped straight line acceleration are very similar between the WRX and the 2011 GT (of course the stang has much more low end torque and would kill the WRX from a roll....ie coming out of a slow turn in autocross). With that said, in my mind I thought the Mustang would be significantly quicker than my car and therefore my point of comparison was flawed. I didn't mean to say it was slow by any means....it's more a situation that I thought it was going to make my heart jump out of my chest if I went WOT....and it didn't. When I drove a C5 Z06.....I got scared putting the pedal to the floor on street tires in that thing.....I guess I expecting something similar to that I suppose.

I will agree with you here, the 5.0 did not feel as terrifyingly fast as a C5 Z06 though their quarter mile times aren't that different. Its all in the torque delivery, that really affects the perception power.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:03 pm

That's because it's missing the pushrods. :wink:

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:08 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Maybe Michael will let me ride along with him in Sanford and make my heart jump out of my chest

.

I believe ride-alongs are prohibited at the NCAC due to getting a look at the course for a championship. I'll be at event #8 though.

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:21 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

That's because it's missing the pushrods. :wink:

oh yeah.....and NOS stickers

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Jason Mauldin wrote:

That's because it's missing the pushrods. :wink:

Gotta love the pushrod, well, at least the unbent ones unlike the ones currently in my vette.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:32 pm

Les Davis wrote:

Gotta love the pushrod, well, at least the unbent ones unlike the ones currently in my vette.

What?!??!?!! Unlike!!!

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Todd Breakey wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Gotta love the pushrod, well, at least the unbent ones unlike the ones currently in my vette.

What?!??!?!! Unlike!!!

Yeah, some ham fisted idiot money shifted it at the last autocross.... Yes, I'm the ham fisted idiot.

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:43 pm

Les Davis wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Gotta love the pushrod, well, at least the unbent ones unlike the ones currently in my vette.

What?!??!?!! Unlike!!!

Yeah, some ham fisted idiot money shifted it at the last autocross.... Yes, I'm the ham fisted idiot.

you are suppose the use the phrase "A Friend".

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:39 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I've seen no real world proof of that, have you? I've spent a fair amount of time in both the E92 and E90 M3, 6MT and DCT, so I don't particularly doubt your statement, but I do know that you have to keep the thing on the boil to get big power out of it, and in typical autocross courses, there are many opportunities for that not to be the case.

I can't see how it could kill FS with the 2011 GT in that class. If anything, it might make the class at least something but a one-car class? And of course take it out of A-Stock where it has absolutely no chance to ever be competitive?

There's a reason why the e36M3 is still in the current CS. While I don't think it can win, it's still competitive and can grab a trophy at Nationals. That's the 240hp 3.2L inline 6. On a lot of courses CS is just as fast or faster than FS. Check out Sololive currently as they are running the same courses.

Now, suggesting the V8 version of the same car, with more wheel and tire (and weight) doesn't really hold water to me. The big reason no one runs them is upfront cost, tire bills and deemed uncompetitiveness. If it were a ringer in the class, they would become popular. I can guarantee that. - AB

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:44 pm

James,

Please submit to beatings, tongue lashings, and 3 weeks of wearing a hairshirt. Tear your hair asunder, heap coals on your head and offer a sacrifice to the Stang. ..

Perhaps burnt Hot Wheels in the form of Camaros and WRXs shall suffice.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:51 pm

Should I burn BMW (M3 probably or the shoe) hotwheels as well?

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:23 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Should I burn BMW (M3 probably or the shoe) hotwheels as well?

We'd prefer to see video of the actual product burning. Please don't hurt any toys...

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:26 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

One of the things that is "allowing" a leveling of the board among automakers is the general advancement in engineering knowledge in my opinion. As time progresses, previously sophisticated methods of design and manufacturing are becoming mainstream, and this process is (has been) accelerating with time.

To go along with this, I remember seeing a quote from the head engineer on the S197 project.

It was something along the lines of "Anyone can build a car that handles great, the trick is to keep it affordable".

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:56 am

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

One of the things that is "allowing" a leveling of the board among automakers is the general advancement in engineering knowledge in my opinion. As time progresses, previously sophisticated methods of design and manufacturing are becoming mainstream, and this process is (has been) accelerating with time.

To go along with this, I remember seeing a quote from the head engineer on the S197 project.

It was something along the lines of "Anyone can build a car that handles great, the trick is to keep it affordable".

I agree. What used to be secret domain or tribal knowledge has become more of a science. That the general basics of "how to do it right" are now down to specific formulas. But that once everyone knows how to do it, you just have to do it just as well, but for less money.

I am not saying there is no room left for innovation, but that the difference between "state of the art" and "cars for the masses" are not that far apart. It reminds me of an article in Grassroots motorsports from years ago. How they were able to take a then new Honda Odyssey Minivan and beat an older Jaguar in an autocross. The point being that modern suspension technology is being applied to even the lowliest of vehicles.

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