Where do I get real gas in Raleigh?

Frank Catena · **Joined:** Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:08 pm **Posts:** 418

For E10 fuel the mileage change isn't all that much. Probably 2-3% less mileage than "normal" gasoline. The folks who have FFVs (Flex Fuel Vehicles) and run E85 really see the change - typically a 25% drop in mileage.

Frank

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri May 28, 2010 10:29 am

Frank Catena wrote:

For E10 fuel the mileage change isn't all that much. Probably 2-3% less mileage than "normal" gasoline. The folks who have FFVs (Flex Fuel Vehicles) and run E85 really see the change - typically a 25% drop in mileage.

Frank

wouldent one thing becoming more fule efficient instead of having to stop more ofthen to pick up MORE gas be the better approach? Just a retorical question I ask every time I hear this... Im to lazy to do the math and never will.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri May 28, 2010 12:36 pm

Did some fact checking and actual "talk to the knowledgeable guy" at a full service Exxon on Strickland at Six Forks in North Raleigh.

1) Per the "knowledgeable guy" at the Exxon station Exxon and all other major brands switched to E10 about 9 months ago. This was either shortly after or maybe before the foam in my 24 year old fuel cell finally gave up. However, the new foam will withstand E10 no problem per the manufacturer.

2) Per the Exxon guy a non branded station at Mitchell Mill and Forestville roads (just East of 401 North of 540) sells 100 percent gas. Per Google Maps and Street View there is a big gas station there apparently called "Farmers Corner" (Corner name or business name???)

3) Actual label on the BP pumps at Strickland and Leesville/540 says E10

4) Wikipedia says the switch to E10 is due to the phase out of MTBE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eth ... l_mixtures

5) MTBE is an oxygenate and substitute for lead in gas and apparently was getting into drinking water and at the least causing a bad taste. Also it "lead" the contaminate plume as an indicator of benzene and toulene which are bad things. Lots of discussion of other trade-offs, whether or not there is really a hazard, etc. that I'll leave to the chemists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

DickRasmussen wrote:

4) Wikipedia says the switch to E10 is due to the phase out of MTBE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eth ... l_mixtures

No mention of the massive corn subsidies for the US' E10, eh? That isn't suspicious at all.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri May 28, 2010 1:10 pm

Andrew Jonell wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

4) Wikipedia says the switch to E10 is due to the phase out of MTBE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eth ... l_mixtures

No mention of the massive corn subsidies for the US' E10, eh? That isn't suspicious at all.

Remember those Red State anti socialism Republicans need their government payoffs too in order to keep voting "red".

Best of both worlds. The red state politicians/voters benefit and the blue state taxpayers pay and support the improved air/water and the claimed reduction in foreign/gulf oil. :lol:

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

Today's blatant lies brought to you by... Monsanto! BP! ADM! Other companies with acronyms!

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:13 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

"Summer" gas mileage has consistently been between just under 24 to just under 25. The car is almost never used for any other driving. In "winter" it drops 1 or 1.5 mpg. These numbers have been the same since 2006. If Exxon is using ethanol the impact on my car is zero.

Dick - I'm confused by your statement above. Are you saying 1 - 1.5 mpg drop in gas mileage = zero impact, or am I misunderstanding?

Also, don't forget that most people in this part of the country use their AC compressor a whole lot more in the summer than in the winter, so average gas mileage should be higher in the wintertime.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

It's fairly well known that there is winter gas and summer gas. With winter gas, it's pretty common to see a fuel economy drop.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2010 7:32 am

My drop has been consistently the same each winter. The mileage this last winter when Exxon changed to E10 was the same as the previous 3 and 1/2 winters (I started the job in Feb 2006). Summer mileage this year is the same (or maybe even slightly better) than the previous 4 summers. My car seems to be "insensitive" to A/C use . . . something about all that V-8 torque versus whatever the wind resistance is. However, I certainly can feel the A/C cycle. Also, my after work A/C load is relatively low since I park in the shaded lower level of a parking deck. :lol:

The tires have been the same for the last couple of years. Some of the winter driving has been on snow tires but I don't include those tanks due to too many other variables. If anything I've been more aggressive in traffic this year . . . better slow down before I get in trouble. :cry:

One of the winter issues besides gas is "wet pavement drag" since it may be wetter in winter. Winter may involve defroster use which runs the A/C.

The car is in an insulated garage at home so cold starts in winter mean "50 F" or so.

Bottom line is that with my particular car on a 23 mile freeway commute with about 3/4 mile of surface street at each end the E10 has not cost me mileage.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2010 8:02 am

Andrew Jonell wrote:

It's fairly well known that there is winter gas and summer gas. With winter gas, it's pretty common to see a fuel economy drop.

Winter gas is more volatile to improve cold weather starts. Technical term: Reid Pressure. This could be a real problem if the weather warmed with the winter formulation. It gave my 260Z fits (long story) with what is technically called "hot fuel flash" but most people call vapor lock.

I always remove any winter gas from autocross cars before warm weather autocrosses.

FYI Wake county is allowed to have high (9.0) reid pressure through May. My gas mileage improves each spring before then. If lower reid pressure is the cause, then Exxon must be lowering it earlier than required.

Per the EPA E10 gets an additional 1.0 point Reid pressure allowance.

As far as I can tell Wake does NOT need reformulated gas (RFG). If so I don't know what aspect of the gasoline other than Reid pressure change here for the winter.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/GFM/Fi ... ne_Map.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/oms/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/volatility.htm

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/420b10018.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rvpguide.pdf

Dick

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:11 pm

Update:

MikeWhitney wrote:

This topic did come up here:

http://thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=30

Karl Shultz wrote:

The Exxon station at East Club Blvd. and I85 in Durham has a huge banner out front that reads "NO ETHANOL HERE." It's usually pretty crowded.

Might be fun to send Exxon an email and see if they can give a list of no-ethanol stations in the area...

I went by there today. The banner is gone. So, I walked in, and asked the cashier if the gas was still ethanol free. "I don't think it is anymore."

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Dolphin's on 55 and Green Hope School has a big sign in the window "Ethanol free gas sold here".

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:39 pm

NC is one of the few states left that don't require stations to post if the gas contains ethanol. I vote we start an electronic petition and get the law changed to require posting.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:49 pm

if ULSD is bad for older trucks like ours.. is there a way to put a additive in, that helps combat some of the effects of the newer fuel. or are we all screwed in to buying new eco freindly and unreliable trucks that are really expensive. my wrx is new enough that i dont notice anything really. though our old 280z with the headers on it, and no heat shield on it.. i had to be careful when refueling not to induce vapor lock.. she was notorious for that. i just had to pull over and run for a minute to refill the fuel rail and lines before heading out, to let the temperature equalize too. if i left rght away and just drove off, she would cut out and not restart. notorious for doing that.

George Bright · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:02 pm

The ULSD causes the seals in the injection pump to shrink. Or more precisely the Sulfur caused them to swell some. The fix is to rebuild the injection pump with new seals. My old 510 Datsun used to have a vapor lock problem in the summer until I converted to an electric fuel pump and fuel recirculation like the very early 510s had. My folks 310s had a fan aimed at the carb to help with the problem.

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