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 Post subject: Geothermal heat pump - Anyone have one?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:17 am 
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Interested in seeing if anyone has experiences with the system, installers, cost, monthly operating expense, etc....

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:36 pm 
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I'd be interested too. The promise of better efficiency winter and summer with a tax credit too.

I'm pretty sure that the Smart Home at Duke University was originally designed to have a geothermal heat pump but the soil proved too rocky so they have standard air-air type with a SEER of 16.

Frank


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:54 pm 
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I have a former co-worker who has had two of them in two different houses. I'll get info from him


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:25 pm 
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RobLupella wrote:
I have a former co-worker who has had two of them in two different houses. I'll get info from him


Cool, thanks Rob

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Reseached it a couple of years ago. Basically was told it was not cost effective in this area as our temps were not cold enough. A huge expense to dig down to get 55degree temps when our average temps are in the 50s. Lots of problems if you have leaks which happens when you put pipes in the ground. I am having some insureds go with the Solar now due to tax breaks but looks like about a 10 year break even so I don't see it. In 10 years it will then be old technology. I had one client borrow 40k to do it.

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Last edited by clinehall on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:36 pm 
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clinehall wrote:
Reseached it a couple of years ago. Basically was told it was not cost effective in this area as our temps were not cold enough. A huge expense to dig down to get 55degree temps when our average temps are in the 50s. Lots of problems if you have leaks which happens when you put pipes in the ground. I am having some insureds go with the Solar now due to tax breaks but looks like about a 10 year break even so I don't see it. In 10 years it will then be old technology. I has one client borrow 40k to do it.


I just paid a $800 bill for one month of propane heat (+water/stove). Propane prices have gotten absurd. So, yeah, I'm looking into all my options. Just had PSNC start work on evaluating running service to my street which would, I think, be the best option. Especially considering the new announcements of vast NG shale reserves in the northeast basically doubling the US NG capacity.

Also in parallel looking at ways to tighten up the house, including closing off the open attic roof framing and insulating. We must have a pretty leaky house.

BTW does anyone have access to an IR video camera? I'd like to do an exterior IR view of the house to look for obvious hot spots.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Last year went with a gas back up heat pump. Supposedly alot more effecient and cost effective than electric heat pump. The gas runs very minimally. Brand name Goodman It is very warm (unlike heat pumps I have had in the past) and considering the winter we have had I guess I can't complain about the cost.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:59 pm 
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What about an open loop Geothermal system? I have a friend who has one and uses the water to keep a small lake full. It would be impractical in a subdivision and you do have to dig a well. I bet there are restrictions on that in Wake County. Probably not a viable option unless you live in the country and need a well anyway.

Check into an insulating foam that is sprayed under the roof and rafters?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:12 pm 
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my sister just did that deal with the reflective insulation in the attic in Wilmington. I am anxious to see here results. I think that could be done in a couple of saturdays with out any problem

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Related thoughts -

Propane is not a regulated fuel. So shopping around makes sense. Teaser rates are used all the time. Don't be afraid to call your provider and tell them they're above the market price.
Gas assisted heat pumps make a lot of sense in NC, more so if you can get natural gas.

I looked at solar ... rough numbers of $30K to install 22 3x5' panels and tie it into the grid. You get 30% back from the Feds and 35% from NC (over five years). Then sell SRECs at maybe 21 cents per KW-h to generate income.
Like Mr Hall said, the payback still looks like ten years.

For what its worth, Dow is developing a thin film solar roof shingle due to be released this year. Less efficient than crystal silicon but an interesting idea if you need a roof too.

Frank


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:16 pm 
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WalterHouston wrote:
What about an open loop Geothermal system? I have a friend who has one and uses the water to keep a small lake full. It would be impractical in a subdivision and you do have to dig a well. I bet there are restrictions on that in Wake County. Probably not a viable option unless you live in the country and need a well anyway.


It's interesting to hear that. We are thinking about putting a pool in, and I was thinking, "now a pool would make a good heat source/sink for a heat pump". A bit of Google searching didn't yield any results though, so I guess I'm the only one thinking about that :)

In the summer using a pool as a heat sink would be awesome since it would heat the pool water ... but maybe a bit too much :) Maybe would make the pool freeze in the winter too?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Frank Catena wrote:
Propane is not a regulated fuel. So shopping around makes sense. Teaser rates are used all the time. Don't be afraid to call your provider and tell them they're above the market price.


Very true. My co-worker was paying over $1.50/gallon more than I was until he dropped his current provider and called a competitor. Prices can vary WILDLY and you have to check around (often) to keep from getting screwed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:33 pm 
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clinehall wrote:
my sister just did that deal with the reflective insulation in the attic in Wilmington. I am anxious to see here results. I think that could be done in a couple of saturdays with out any problem


When we built the house we're in now back in 2002, we used plywood boards with reflective radiant shielding for the roof. These had just come on the market at the time. It is essentially a typical plywood panel with an aluminum foil like surface that faces the inside of the attic which significantly reduces the thermal radiation from the inside attic roof into the attic itself.

The emissivity of the aluminum panel side is something less than 0.1 while that of typical plywood is in the range of 0.8 to 0.9. Hence it clearly will reduce radiation heat transfer off the attic roof substantially. It works the other way of course too in the winter although the temperature difference is likely lower compared to the delta T in the summer. Since it was here from day one, I can't really give any improvement thoughts other than the attic isn't nearly as hot in the summer. There must be some on-line data for this stuff, but I've not searched.

As an aside, we also used blown cellulose insulation in all the walls and attic which has worked out superbly. The walls are much warmer in the winter resulting in it "feeling" warmer in the house (less radiation from your body to the wall that it can "see"), so we're able to comfortably have the thermostat lower than would be typical I guess. A side benefit is that the house is much quieter than a fiberglass insulated one. We also used it in the interior walls of all the bathrooms and my office to suppress noise.

So far I'm very pleased with the energy consumption of the house some 7 years on now.

By the way, I swear there was a thread not too long ago on the board here about geothermal heat pumps. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Chuck Branscomb wrote:

By the way, I swear there was a thread not too long ago on the board here about geothermal heat pumps. :?


I'll be darned, you're right!

http://thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t= ... geothermal

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:14 pm 
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MikeWhitney wrote:
Chuck Branscomb wrote:

By the way, I swear there was a thread not too long ago on the board here about geothermal heat pumps. :?


I'll be darned, you're right!

http://thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t= ... geothermal


Well, my "not too long ago" turns out to be over 3 years back...

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