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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:45 pm 
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I hate working the course at autox and I must tell you about it, often.

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Aaron Buckley wrote:
Michael Westerfield wrote:
"Credit Score" seems like a poor choice of words in general. It seems more like it is used for how good of a customer you will be, not your potential to fail at repaying money back. Using Scott as an example, he is being rated lower for paying money back every month VS someone who could be higher if they had revolving debt. The system seems very very flawed.


I agree completely Michael. - AB


I think that is all a matter of perspective. As the consumer you clear your CC debt monthly to avoid interest charges. Sure you show you can pay. That is a good thing. From the creditors standpoint, not so much. They like a revolving balance. They make money. That is what they exist for. As long as your credit:debt ratio is not bad you can get loans and decent interest rates. In relative terms. The 20% down thing on houses is tough for many. A good thing if you have the money though. The 100% and 120% loans banks were doing is part of what got them in so much trouble.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Graham Jagger wrote:

I think that is all a matter of perspective. As the consumer you clear your CC debt monthly to avoid interest charges. Sure you show you can pay. That is a good thing. From the creditors standpoint, not so much. They like a revolving balance. They make money. That is what they exist for. As long as your credit:debt ratio is not bad you can get loans and decent interest rates. In relative terms. The 20% down thing on houses is tough for many. A good thing if you have the money though. The 100% and 120% loans banks were doing is part of what got them in so much trouble.


Actually, the credit card companies should love those that don't carry a balance, but charge up a lot each month. This client carries very little risk, yet generates a lot in merchant fees. Visa/MC, AMEX, etc. all charge a merchant fee and the banks get a portion of that for each charge. Back when I was with Wachovia (pre-merger with Wells Fargo), they paid around $40MM to have Visa on their debit/cc. Yet, they made 2x that in the transactions... and Wachovia was had very little presence in the credit card space. Banks are quickly realizing that the days of people running excessive amounts of revolving debt are quickly going away. In the last year, the US consumer reduced it's revolving debt by more than 7%. From 2002-2007, revolving debt increased by double digit gains.

As for loans, 120% loans started a lot of trouble, and while 100% loans were bad, the biggest problem was interest only or negative amortization loans. This allowed the lenders to get you into something that you could afford interest payment only on, or even less in the case of negative amoritization... In that case, you might as well have been renting. Granted, it was time where everyone believed that house prices would just continue to rise to infinity, instead of seeing it all as an enormous bubble. - AB

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:48 pm 
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I got a 95% LTV loan in July 08....probably among the last of those. I could have put 20% down if I cashed out some equities and had little to no emergency fund, but I didn't want to do that. My FICO (or whatever Equifax calls it nowadays) was 815 at the time. I think my net worth due to investments and credit score/history allowed me to get that sort of loan. I have since refinanced to have no PMI since I can't deduct it on my taxes anymore due to phase out so I was willing to take a slightly higher interest rate to not have PMI, but turns out I got even lower AND no PMI at SECU.

Graham, Aaron nailed it. The CC companies make a boat load in txn fees. Hence the reason you see places say '$10 min on credit cards' because the fees are usually a flat, say, $.50 plus, say, .5% of the total. So with a $5 charge, the vendor is paying 10%+ in fees alone which is not good for their bottom line. Anyway, I have an AMEX blue and I earn about $1000 a year in cash back and I pay no interest whatsoever. I get some of the AMEX perks to boot. Do you think that AMEX is loosing money on me? Nope. Plus its good for them (or any CC company) to have a good mix of creditees on their books to balance things out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:34 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
but turns out I got even lower AND no PMI at SECU.


Are the mortgage rates they (SECU) put online even close to what they are if you go in in person? The ARM rates they list right now are about what I'd expect to pay for a fixed rate.

We are members, so it is an option for us.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:59 pm 
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scottjohnson wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
but turns out I got even lower AND no PMI at SECU.


Are the mortgage rates they (SECU) put online even close to what they are if you go in in person? The ARM rates they list right now are about what I'd expect to pay for a fixed rate.

We are members, so it is an option for us.


3.75% for 90% and less LTV and 4.75% for 90-100% LTV are the current 2 year ARM rates. SECUs FRMs are not competitive with the other banks, but keep in mind the closing costs, which are very low at SECU. SECU also has an insane refi policy. All you do is pay 3/4 point of your current balance and you can change from ARM to FRM or vice versa. Or if rates drop etc. This saves you thousands of dollars in closing costs.

Are you able to put 20% down and have money for discount points? If so, you'll probably get the best deal with a non credit union bank (I have a neighbor who recently got a killer mortgage refi with BB&T). BofA is kind of shady now. WF might do well (I have a name there if you want).

If you know you'll stay in the house for a long time, go for a FRM 30 year. It is a financial instrument that is likely to disappear in the next decade or so. A lot of places are changing to only 20 year FRMs.

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