Selling Racecars/what's this car worth

jakepressley · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:34 am

I have friends who run with BMWCCA and are always buying and selling racecars... I have an interest to meet ANYONE who is interested in our hobby and have helped sell equipment and cars for these friends... to help them out... they let me use their equipment so it ends up being a labor trade type of deal...

The biggest problem I have run across is the inital price point for the cars espically.. Its a tender balance between what the car was worth... with all the stock components vs. aftermarket components... Then dealing with the depreciation of having a car that is only useful during competetion (fully prepped racecar)..

My questions are...

1. Is there such a thing as a win/win situation when horse trading with racecars?

2. What would this car be worth??? I just found out that yet another former bmwcca car is up for sale... I'm havn't offered to help out on this one but am curious what the club members might think a fair value for this car would be?

1995 e36 m3 Not sure if its a lightweight, but it doesn't have a sunroof. It does have the Euro motor, and 6 speed. The car was rebodied after a bad off at Mid Ohio... a blank chassis was delivered and completely rebuilt from the ground up. Its got a bolt in cage... which I know is a downer... the car han't been on track for probably 6 years.

thanks
jp

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:47 am

I just bought an ex bmwcca car at what I thought was 50cent on the dollar. This economy is great for buying stuff. How I come up with what I thought it was worth was to do some cost acounting and figure what it cost to build the thing. There is a fixed cost to that which will be there no matter what you race. Buying is MUCH cheaper than building. I also figure what pleasure I was going to get out of it. Fun costs money.

I also compared to what my friends loose on boat purchases and feel better about the potential loss. I also compared to other race vehicles, I looked as some vintage racers and found some MGB's going for 34K made my purchase cheap.

I also thought if I buy new Caymen roll it off the lot, track it for a couple of years and then sell it. I have lost more than the total cost of my race car.

This ends the course in Rationalization Accounting.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

clinehall wrote:

Rationalization Accounting.

That made me laugh. You are right on Cline. Doesn't help Jake come up with a real value for that car. But for someone buying one to use as a track toy, it sure works. Defining $/fun and doing accounting on playing AX, DE, D2D is entertaining.

That said buying a built race car vs building it yourself is more cost effective. Especially in this economy.

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:12 am

I just went through this myself and the 50 cents on the dollar for buying vs building is about right.

Now is a great time to buy a track toy.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

50 cents/dollar sounds a bit high. More like really high. Unless you're the guy on sccaforums that's trying to sell his SSB GSR (that is only eligible in class for one more year) for $22K. :lol:

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Tell him it's worth $500, and I will be by on Saturday to pick it up.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:51 pm

jakepressley wrote:

1. Is there such a thing as a win/win situation when horse trading with racecars?

No.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:08 am

A lot has to do with the car. Sort of like buying a horse. What is the pedigree of the car. Has it won? Has it been wrecked? Does it have a place to compete in?If it is not a winning race car, or it has been badly damaged in a wreck or if there is a limited place for it to compete in, it is not worth much....probably better parting it out (IMO).

As for building versus buying. There are benefits and drawbacks to both. I am kind of glad I built mine. And I would do it again. A lot wiser now that I have been through it once.

jakepressley · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:35 am

Good point Jim...

Where it gets real sticky is when you have a "rare" piece or components...

I have heard people say that they would buy this particular car for the euro motor and 6 speed... I suppose its all a product of how much cash you have to throw around....

if its .50 on the dollar it looks like I'll be keeping my car till I'm 90.. for me it wouldn't be worth it to sell even if I never drove the thing... nothing like taking a 3 thousand dollar car and putting another 2500-3k into it, then begging someone to buy it for 1500... I'd rather plant flowers in the thing..

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:27 pm

jakepressley wrote:

Good point Jim...

Where it gets real sticky is when you have a "rare" piece or components...

While it is rare and "sough after", the rare item might make it less desirable to the masses, thus shrinking your overall audience. When I think about the Euro e36 M3 motors, I think about the inability to get parts or those knowledgable enough to know the differences... and with the likelihood that the motor will grenade over time, the swap to a US motor is probable. Then the rarity is gone, aside from the sunroof and 6spd, which may not be all that advantageous anyway.

In a case like this, unless I found someone willing to pay the uplift for the rare parts, I would just part it. I see racecars for sale all the time where I know you could part it for a profit, if you have the cajones to do it. - AB

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:26 pm

jakepressley wrote:

Where it gets real sticky is when you have a "rare" piece or components...

Aaron brings up a very good point. The last thing you want in a race car is something "rare" unless you have a ton of money and know a source of "rare" replacements.

Figure you will go through that motor in one to two seasons...now sell it to someone that wants the rare motor in their street car.

I started off with a rare car and turned it into a race car. That is where I made a mistake. After 5 years, there is not much left to the original 1LE that I have not replaced expect for the driveshaft and front brakes. The brakes will be gone come the 2010 season.

So I could of saved a lot of money starting with a junk yard shell.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:39 pm

Jake,

I agree with the others... .50 on a dollar may be on the high side. Go take a look at the parts list on my 99 Cobra and then look what I am asking (much less what I am probably going to get for it). The only thing that is bone stock is the dash, steering wheel, carpet, console, and body panels (but not the hood). Everything else has been changed, rebuilt, upgraded, etc.

Great time to buy a race car!

-Kevin

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:44 pm

Even back in about 2005 or so when I finally sold my Honda Challenge car, I got, at BEST, 0.40 on the dollar. IIRC, I sold it for $8500, and by then, it had about $2000 worth of cage in it, the right shocks, the right differential, two spare sets of wheels...the list goes on. It was a pretty typical race car, in that the super big dollar stuff (engine, engine management, custom final drive) was still not done.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1272219

This one Marty posted may not be at .50/$ yet but it hasn't sold either. Looks like a well sorted out car. I guess you have to really know the brand in gory detail to know if things like this are worth it.

As much as I should just pick up something like this already done. I still feel the urge to just tear mine up and have at it. I'm sure I'll get clobbered on the costs though...

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Graham Jagger wrote:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1272219

This one Marty posted may not be at .50/$ yet but it hasn't sold either. Looks like a well sorted out car. I guess you have to really know the brand in gory detail to know if things like this are worth it.

IMO about that car, it's kind of a half-breed which appears to only be legal (marginally) for one NASA class. The build is pretty funky too, with tons of high-dollar aero, but a shit cage and 325i brakes?

And it's putting down as much power as my stock M3 with a chip and M50 manifold. Based on the car's appearance I would have expected a little more under the hood.

If I were shopping I'd pass...

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