THSCC Forums

+1


it's a very valuable skill that helps with "smoothness" - which makes you faster...


so why not use all of those things to be even faster? a few tenths here and there quickly add up...


sounds good if you only brake in a straight line and take extra care (time) to slow your clutch release down...but keep in mind that you are leaving a lot of speed on the table by driving like this...there are plenty of turns at plenty of tracks where you can be braking and downshifting between turn-in and apex (smooth downshifts are critical here)...

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David White
95 M3 - #275 BMWCCA JP, NASA GTS-3
02 M3 - street/track
05 Suburban 8.1L

+2

I use H-T EVERY downshift in my car on track, and 90% of the time on the street. The only time I don't do it...when I'm in a car where the pedals make it too hard for me to do so. For example when I drove Mitch's E36 at CMP and found the brake pedal almost hits the floor. It was so far below the gas pedal that rolling my foot did zero, zip, nada. In my car the brake pedal's travel is less than 1/4 of that in his E36.

I use H-T to improve my smoothness and advise all my students to learn it to do the same. At a bare minimum it helps prolong the life of your transmission and clutch IMO.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

I don't disagree, however, I doubt neglecting this skill is going to cost Malia the HPDE Cup in the near future. I just question if it needs to be a priority for someone who's run one HPDE.

i don't know if it needs to be a priority for her to do this in Dec, but starting to practice on the street will make a world of difference when she does try it on track. if it's something you want to do eventually, i say go ahead and start learning.

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05 MCS

-1

More of a macho shtick thing.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

She's only done one event so she's not even in the points chase. I won the HPDE Championship in 2007, but had to dial it back a bit this season only doing 9 events. I'm still in the top 10 in points though.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

H-T is a skill that does not have its rewards limited to track only. I find 2-1 H-T's on turn around cones in AutoX to be very rewarding.

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“I feel safer on a racetrack than I do on Houston's freeways.” - A.J. Foyt

Kevin Butler
Mobetta Autosport Spec E30 #612
2003 C5 Z06 Corvette
AFR Miata, SM2 61, '93 w/200 SC'd RWHP - soon to be resurrected
Waaaay too many other projects....

look jim...not all of us have the permanent neck sweater to prove our machoness....so we have to make up for it elsewhere.

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05 MCS

heel and toe...sounds like something that might be heard on Dancing with the Stars. Not that I watch that show....I am busy watching Pinks. Oh wait, that doesn't sound good either.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Thanks for all the input. The reason I am trying to learn HT is I had a horrible time downshifiting at CMP. I just could not do it. I struggled both days cause I couldn't find anything that worked for my brain so I figure if nothing else is working I might as well try to learn HT and maybe that will click. I was trying to do some 4 - 3 shifts in the Subaru today but I am having trouble bliping when I am on the brake. I will keep practicing!

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Malia Fredrickson
Clear Waters Travel
www.clearwaterstravel.com
919-656-8771

I learned to heel toe by driving a 510 datsun with 300,000 + miles on the tranny and no syncros left. I could drive it clutchless. That experience came in handy when I drove freight. The 510 was 10 times harder to rev match then a detroit diesel 60 with a 9 speed.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

+3

Gotta do it, if you want to be smooth. Smooth is fast.

It is so ingrained in my driving, I do it ALL the time. It just feels wrong not to heel/toe.

I clearly remember doing it turning into Corning's parking lot this morning. 60mph down to 10, running through all 6 gears. Yeah....

tried this in the Z06, as the pedals are too far apart. absolutely no fun, not to mention makes for a very choppy and unsettling ride. i don't claim to be good at it but i use it in the BMW. unfortunately i own nothing with which i can practice on the street.

the biggest obstacle i fought Malia was timing the blip with the clutch drop. April Curtis helped me with this. brake & de-clutch, shift .. blip and dump the clutch. or something like that.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Kevin, I think you mis-heard something... cause I distinctly remember him saying to get every ounce out of the car, HT must be done... maybe he said it about double-clutching, OR you may be confusing when he was talking about not downshifting so many gears, or not downshifting at all.

I'm pretty sure there's at least one thread, maybe two, on every forum I'm on right now.

Tells me more and more we need to have a HT clinic of some sort.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

Now that we've squashed the issue about whether or not to learn to do it (the vote is yes) here are some tips:

Absolutely practice on the street for a long time. Sitting at a stoplight? Let the right side of your foot wander onto the gas and explore the gas pedal. Try to sustain 2k RPM. Try a blip to 3k. Push hard on the brake (track force) and try to get the sensitivity developed in your foot and ankle.

Coming to a stop from 60 MPH? Downshift into every gear including first. Making a slow stop? Just practice rev match only, no brake. The goal is to never ever let the car determine the engine's speed when decelerating.

Other tips on learning?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1