THSCC Forums

I guess my point is with the above. I don't see how HP helps hide anything. Sure, if you've got WAY MORE than someone else you can get similar times thanks to it. But when we're talking about racing, typically we're talking about racing fairly similar things. Someone with your power and more smoothness is going to beat you, period.

So I suppose in a mixed environment like HPDE or TT you can have some amount of horsepower hiding driving deficiencies because people don't realize that the high HP car should be five seconds faster instead of only one second faster than the dude with lower HP. But once you get to levels of racing with fairly similar prep, that all goes out the window...

And Ryan, I'm lazy. I want the popcorn emoticon in the official list!


--Donnie

Donnie yes I meant as you are learning the craft (for HP to hide mistakes). You can still go "fast" with a HP car by just mashing the throttle at corner exit.

Of course you're correct that when racing with similar cars and with similar drivers mistakes can't be hidden regardless of horsepower.

There's absolutely no need to compromise and make this a big debate... When I made the decision to run with the THSCC TT series, I had a bolt in roll bar installed in my '99 BMW M3. I would install it for events and remove it for the street. Was it a PITA - sure, but it definitely was worth the effort.

Contact Chris from Competition Cages and he'll set you up.

Denis, Graham's going to find a way to make this solution - which is a reasonable one - not for him. Just you wait.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

Z06, no easy path there. Chris really wants nothing to do with them.

regarding the switch to a high hp car, i realized (with VK's help) that jumping into a different and more powerful car points out some serious deficiencies in my abilities. of course if this weekends foray hadn't been in such a heavily loaded run group i might have been able to slow down without getting run over. sadly, i was never really comfortable with the car. i convinced myself i couldn't drive it and it showed. probably the last time i take the Z06 to the track.

apparently a well built, well handling car makes anyone look like they know what they are doing. again a VK'ism. i should look like a Foyt once the new suspension is installed.

or as Ron has said, "anyone can drive a BMW at 9/10's"

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Denis. I looked into bolt in bars. Autopower, Kirk Racing, R-D Racing and DRM. They all have issues from poor fitment to horrible visibility. There are not easy and simple options for a Corvette because of the working space and the frame mounting. Short of butchering up the car. There is one I recently found. They only make it for the C5 and C6. They are dedicated to only doing Vette parts. So far the quality looks very good. The bar is sold as a bolt in with the option of welding. Their idea on bolt in is more if you want to remove it to sell the car. It's like 15 bolts and doesn't look horrible. I have to pull the factory seats to install race seats so I can do it. The bar is also the basis for a cage like they use in their race car. So it could be extended down the road.

Forget Chris Schimmel. I asked him 2 years ago or so after I saw the great job he did on Vincent's car. I wanted a custom built bar that could be removable for the street. He wasn't interested. I asked a year ago and he said he was helping with a T1 car and would get back to me. Nothing. He's so busy doing Bimmers it ain't happening. Or I would have had a bar done already.

Graham

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http://www.greywinds.com

Can someone explain to me why Chevy based the C5 Z06 on the coupe? Was it just for weight and stiffness? I can see where that would really hamper the working margins for installing a bar. (But don't get all excited, we're not going to make an exception just because Chevy wasn't thinking about the grassroots guy when they developed the car.)

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I believe the car is based on the convertible. Then uses the B pillar from the coupe. Then the hard roof shell is installed. The tail end is the same as a convertible (trunk,quarters). If you look at the interior of a convertible and a Z06 behind the seats. They are close except for the waterfall in the vert. The weight savings come in other areas. Shaved glass, titanium mufflers, lighter battery, etc...

There is no such thing as a Corvette with plenty of interior room for roll bars. Even the coupe with the hatchback doesn't really affect the room for a roll bar much. It means the 2 down bars in the back have a slightly better angle. There is little difference between the roll bar for coupe and Z06.

It's like saying the S2000 or Miata should have more room for them. They're sports car. They weren't designed with roll bars in mind. I'm sure grassroots is the last thing the GM engineers were concerned with. They were too busy fixing the trunk to hold 2 golf bags...

Anyway I'm not looking for an exception on the install. After the car gets cut up to install it. It needs to actually work if ever called upon.

The one I am looking at has a write up from people who have installed it along with tons of pictures of it in the car. Which is a first. So I have a better idea as to the fitment. Looks like about $1K for the roll bar, powder coated, install hardware, and shipping.

The bar dimensions, thickness, length of tubes, number of bends, etc. are based on the SCCA GCR spec.

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http://www.greywinds.com

10 years. That's how long I've driven a car on the street with a roll bar. I even got rear ended once. I just simply do NOT see the issue. A padded rollbar is no more dangerous to my head than the padded steel roof above my head. Or the plastic coated steel door frame that's *right there* to the left of my temple.

Mountain<->molehill

And I too would like to see the statistics on injury/deaths with roll bars on the street.

I agree with Matt. The side impact I took at Rockingham, in my bone stock vette, smacked my head against the upper door frame. Had it not been at an HPDE I would not have been protected by the required helmet. And who knows what damage I might have inflicted on my skull. A roll bar in that instance would not have made a difference one way or the other. It's hard to visualize an instance where the bar would come into contact with your head, other than a tremendous rear end collision that cause the seat to fail and threw you up and back into the bar. In that case you'd have hit the roof also if the bar wasn't there. I'm having difficulty visualizing another circumstance of contactwith the bar. But I'm sure I'll be enlightened shortly

Bernie and Matt there are some cars where it would be quite easy for someone tall to hit the bar. A Miata comes to mind for me. I'm sure there are others so Graham's concerns are not unfounded.

Ron

I agree that things are a bit iffy in a miata, most tall folks can't pass the broom test, but we're talking corvette here. I'm pretty close to Grahams height and It's not an issue in either the C5 or the C4. The bar can be tilted back at least in the coupe, maybe the FRC has less clearance. If so I stand corrected.

I've been comtemplating removing the bar from my Miata for several years for this very reason. So finally the other day, I had Rebecca look at where my head is in relation to the bar. There wasn't very much room between the bar and my head. So guess what is coming out of my car this weekend!!

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

Race seats help this situation a bunch

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Todd, if you mount the race seat directly to the floor you'll fit under the bar. I pass the broom stick test in the green one.