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 Post subject: VIR Full
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:02 am 
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Location: Raleigh
I was talking with someone after this weekend's events and he commented something to the effect of "who would have thought THSCC would be putting on a track event with 195 participants". Mark, Brad, Stacy, Marty and the rest of the crew....excellent job!

This weekend's events continued the THSCC and Z club tradition of smooth running events. Someone asked me if its a for profit event. No, just VERY dedicated folks putting in a LOT of time before the event to make sure it runs seamlessly. Well, from the comments I heard this weekend, mission accomplished!

I found it exceptional that we ran 48 cars through the time trial on Saturday in what, less than an hour? When we first started we were hustling to run 30. And the events run so smoothly that you can almost set your watch by the schedule. Green group on track? Well it must be 2:35.

If you decided that you'd skip the event because the Feb weather is usually iffy, wrong decision. The only thing we had to put up with was wind gusts on Sunday (bad enough that during the time trial I actually looked at the gauges to see why my engine had blown up!). Other than that cool but tolerable and Saturday actually pleasant.

So, a big THANKS to everyone involved in organizing the event. Another big THANKS to all the students who came out to play with us...please come on back. Very few offs, very few incidents meant that everyone was on the same page and we owe that to our fine crew of in car instructors. Wonderful job all!

Ron


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:23 am 
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Excellent event. The wind sucked though.

When will results be posted?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:32 am 
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Mark is expecting the data for the results in the next day or so, and they will be posted shortly after.

The event turned out great. We heard nothing but great things from eveyone. Thank you to everyone who made this event run so well.

We really have a great group of people attend these, and make it worth the time spent putting these together.

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Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Thanks to all that made this weekend happen. The weather was great for Feb., except for the winds on Sunday killing my contacts.

Ron - Thanks for the Classroom Instruction.

Great Event !!!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:43 pm 
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Excellent event indeed. I think flawless would be appropriate.

Looking at the TT times from last year, it appears that everyone has upped their game quite a bit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Hell... I'm just happy we filled the banquet hall on Saturday night!! :D

Thanks all for the kind words... it really is a labor of love for all of us involved. I think (hope) we made a lasting impression on the many people with us this weekend who had never been to a THSCC event... newbs and veterans alike, and that is what I'm most proud of. The vast majority of that impression is the quality of driving seen throughout all our run groups. That's what will keep people coming back... knowing that the guy behind you, beside you, or in front of you is on the same page.

I haven't had a chance yet to go through the feedback forms, but it looks like we got more back than ever before, and thats a good thing.

Thank you all for coming out... see you in April !!

(Or at CMP March 10th at the Asphalt Ventures lapping day :D)

-Stacy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Hey ya’ll, classroom pays off!! In Saturday morning’s Red classroom, Capt Ron mentioned that going off at T10 (South Bend) was one of the best places you could go off. His point was that there was plenty of run off room available.

I have always been of the opinion that if you lost it in T10, odds were that you would end up in the tire wall, track left of T10’s exit. After expressing my opinion to Ron, he replied that if you tried to save it there you would indeed go cross track into the tires. The best thing to do there was to just go straight.

The next session out, I decided to try to brake a little less for entering T10, consequently turned in sooner and you guessed it, exited too early and ran out of track at around 85+ mph. I dropped the front right off in the dirt first and felt the car wanting to start rotating(CW) about that corner. I remembered the recent classroom session and the comments made. My arms had started the motion of countersteering the wheel towards the back of the car, but I limp wristed and froze up. About that time the rear tire got in the dirt with the front and stabilized everything out. I just kept it straight and slowly, smoothly eased back on track about halfway down the hill. I don't think I ever had time to touch the brakes. I did lift on the gas, but modulated the gas pedal as the car needed to keep it straight. I just wanted to not hit those tires across the track!

Blake Frazier was in the car with me and helped me go over the incident so I knew why I got into trouble in the first place. Thanks Blake! If it hadn’t been for our classroom instructors providing us with “preplanned responses” I’m sure I would have smacked the tire wall hard. Thank you very much Capt Ron!

I hope this little incident will help everyone to better appreciate and take full advantage of all the valuable instruction available at our HPDEs.

Regards,

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Kevin Butler
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:31 am 
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Kevin Butler wrote:
Hey ya’ll, classroom pays off!! In Saturday morning’s Red classroom, Capt Ron mentioned that going off at T10 (South Bend) was one of the best places you could go off. His point was that there was plenty of run off room available.


Wow, that must have been a heck of a ride. If there is one place on VIR full course I will never brag about how fast I was going, it's T10. I always, always, always overbrake for that corner and I'm a happy person for it :) Just about every other corner on that track has some "wiggle room" for an over exuberant entry, but not South Bend. You just never realize it until it's too late.

This is reason #1 I always have the talk with my students about "pick your battles". Play with entry speed and line in T1, 4, 14, 17. But not 3, 6a, or 10.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:11 am 
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MikeWhitney wrote:
If there is one place on VIR full course I will never brag about how fast I was going, it's T10. I always, always, always overbrake for that corner and I'm a happy person for it :) Just about every other corner on that track has some "wiggle room" for an over exuberant entry, but not South Bend. You just never realize it until it's too late.

This is reason #1 I always have the talk with my students about "pick your battles". Play with entry speed and line in T1, 4, 14, 17. But not 3, 6a, or 10.

Thats some really GOOD advise. I certainly wish it had been impressed upon me last Nov. Thats a really important point that all students need to hear before they start to try to shave time from their laps.
I think my wounded ego has healed enough to show you all how I got myself in trouble on T10 last year. I'll post it up on utube soon. Maybe it'll keep someone else from doing the same thing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:22 am 
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I almost feel guilty cause I remember ribbing you about being a pansy through T10 :D The guilt is gone now.

My two favorite spots to close up on people are T10 and T14.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:49 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
I almost feel guilty cause I remember ribbing you about being a pansy through T10 :D The guilt is gone now.

My two favorite spots to close up on people are T10 and T14.


I'm growing more and more comfortable with T10 now that I've got some quality laps on Full Course under my belt.

I'm also now a true convert to the inside T14 line... even though I'm still doing a hybrid version of it (still braking before turn in to the left hander, but I'm turning in a little early and slightly clipping the curbing, then braking hard in a straight line (thanks to HT10's and RA-1's this weekend) that puts me just right of center track before the right hander into Roller Coaster. I could never do that in my car with street tires (even sticky ones like BFG KD's).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:32 am 
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Stacy King wrote:
jimpastorius wrote:
I almost feel guilty cause I remember ribbing you about being a pansy through T10 :D The guilt is gone now.

My two favorite spots to close up on people are T10 and T14.


I'm growing more and more comfortable with T10 now that I've got some quality laps on Full Course under my belt.

I'm also now a true convert to the inside T14 line... even though I'm still doing a hybrid version of it (still braking before turn in to the left hander, but I'm turning in a little early and slightly clipping the curbing, then braking hard in a straight line (thanks to HT10's and RA-1's this weekend) that puts me just right of center track before the right hander into Roller Coaster. I could never do that in my car with street tires (even sticky ones like BFG KD's).


You mention the street tires and the inside T14 line. :lol: That is how I had my first off at my first track event last year. Everything was just fine until I realize that I almost had it, but had transferred too much weight to the front under braking as I was turned right into roller coaster. Rear got light at the entry and off I went! I learned quickly to not do that later in the weekend.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Location: Shelby NC
SERIOUS ground can be made up on someone in Southbend (turn 10). That turn separates the "haves" and "have nots" quickly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:18 pm 
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I think I am a have with T10, and a have-not with T14. Just something about that corner.

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Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:19 pm 
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[/old guy steps onto soapbox]

Speaking of wiggle room and all, I hope everyone takes time to mentally rehearse going off at all the critical spots and especially Mike's list (which is excellent). Rehearse now how you are going to respond to every possible outcome you can think of. Don't wait for a real time learning opportunity since it is VERY likely you won't have the automatic mental skills required to recover.

Do this from an "associated" view, meaning you are visually seeing the world from inside your body (i.e. you see your view out of the windshield)...you can also do a dissociated rehearsal (i.e. viewing the car from above for example), but the associated one is the most powerful since you can generate real feelings inside yourself while doing it.

If you find you have some "blanks" in your ability to rehearse a recovery from going off at 10 let's say, then those are clues to what you need to learn, train yourself for.

Let's take a hypothetical example:
You just finish a late pass going into the uphill esses, and you carry a bit more speed than "normal" but by T9 you feel stuck very good and really rocket out of there with that nice sweet "in the groove feeling". However, since you're going a tad quicker than normal you screw up and don't quite brake enough for T10. You turned in early enough to hit the apex, but you're just carrying too damn much speed, and the car is plowing toward the outside on track out.

Stop the rehearsal at this point and create a list of options of how you respond and then resume your rehearsal, eyes closed, feeling yourself in the car, holding the wheel, feeling the feedback in your hands, butt and feet.

Maybe option 1 is realizing you are "over the top" of the front tire's tractive force curve and you MUST open up the steering wheel to reduce the front slip angle to have any chance of increasing front grip. Feel yourself managing that wheel "just right" such that grip is returned in just the right amount to use all the track without further issue.

Maybe option 2 is realizing as you are doing option 1 that it isn't going to work...instead of panicking and lifting with that front steering lock dialed-in, you rehearse opening up your vision to the outside of the track, see your path, open up the wheel and drive right off into the grass/dirt. Realize that you want to exercise option 2 early enough such that you can go off without substantial side loading in the rear tires! Make this happen in your rehearsal -- that do or die point where you learn how to bail the corner prior to making the bail nastiness percentage go up too high! You can feel that loading in your butt in your rehearsal and manage that pavement exit at just the right time.

The point of my post here (which I'm sure is too long already) is that you can rehearse all of these scenarios, how the car responds, and most importantly how YOU respond ahead of time, and you can do them a zillion times. Just rehearsing the basics such as where you keep your vision during times of massive stress is extremely powerful. For example, if you spin in T10, keeping your vision where you want the car to go (such as down track) is the only way you can save it, but under stress the majority will look where it is going instead and visit the Armco. Of course this is easier said than done, but mental rehearsal will make it automatic over time.

“Fun rehearsals” – braking into 14 from 145mph on the back straight, and the instant you step on the pedal it goes to the floor. Same thing for turn 1. How about tracking just as your apexing the first part of hog pen right near the limit, the three cars out in front a bit all come together in a heap, two in the track, one off to the left on the grass. This stuff is endless to create and rehearse, and my belief is that waiting until something like this happens to find out how you’re going to handle the issue, what basics you will have drilled into (or missing from) your brain already, is not the hot ticket. :wink: You don't want to be staring at that heap of cars in the track in Hog Pen and just plow into them with your foot buried in the brakes...

You can definitely scare yourself in these rehearsals, and that’s good. That was one issue numerous people in the past used to complain to me about in my old days of instructing...that what I had suggested had scared them about their track driving and now they felt insecure. My reply was always "that's great" since now you realize what you have to learn not to mention that if just thinking about stuff like this "scares you" you should not be on the track in the first place. I believed those folks who were scared by stuff like this are the most likely to get into trouble and harm themselves or others on track.

Most of all make mental rehearsing fun. Make if fun to find your faults. Embrace finding all of your weak points. Welcome them.

[/old guy steps off soapbox]

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