THSCC Forums

I'm going to Roebling in a couple of weeks - my very first time on track - looking forward to it tremendously. I'll be driving my stock 2002 WRX. I have a couple of newbie questions (some may sound silly):

I'm planning on running on my autocross tires (Azenis) rather than my street tires (Continentals) unless it's very wet. Good plan?

Am I right in thinking I would not use autocross pressures?

If so, do I use street pressures?

Any other preparations I should know about?

I AM going to K&E this Saturday for Tech Day.

Thanks.

Simon

Simon:

-Run the Azenis even if it is wet. They're great in the wet, but suck in standing water.

- Do not run auto-x pressures - the pressure increase from driving a 30 min on track will get them way too high. Start with street pressures in your first run group and check the pressures as soon as you come off track. Adjust from there.

What are you doing for brake pads? Roebling isn't especially hard on brakes, but a 3100lb WRX is still going to be awfully hard on the stock pads.

_________________
Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

And so begins a whole new world of "spending money on car stuff". You'll love it!



Brakes. As Tom said, Roebling isn't particularly hard on brakes, but some good fluid (Valvoline, ATE, Motul, Ford HD) is never a bad idea. Also, might think of calling Matt at Carbotech for some Panther Plus pads. Stocks would probably get the job done OK, but they'll probably wear quickly. Oh, and on the tire pressure thing, in addition to the actual pressure gauge, look at the rollover (or lack thereof) on the sidewalls. That'll give you an idea of whether xx psi on the gauge is right.

Take the same stuff you take to an autocross. Also, if it's gonna be really hot, a washcloth from the cooler water to your head after a session is a nice thing to have.

Wish I could go, but the new job starts Monday and I just don't think I should ask for several days off to drive to GA 2 weeks after I start. Let us know your "first timer" impressions when it's all over.

_________________
Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Good question. I was going to wait for Tech Day to see what shape they're in and maybe go to Carbotech's Bobcat. But I have zero experience installing brake pads. Advice appreciated.

Simon

Fortunately, installing brake pads is one of the easier things to do. I'd imagine there's a guide with pics on I-club. If not, email Tom Hoppe - he can do WRX brakes in his sleep.

From what I heard Matt say about the Bobcats, you'd probably be just fine with them at Roebling. You'll cook them at a more brake-intensive track like CMP or VIR-S.

Ditto what Diane said about fluid. Motul or ATE make really good stuff for track use (see Auto Sport Gallery or T-Hoff) but I tend to use Ford HD DOT3. Notably cheaper and almost the same boiling point.

_________________
Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

Thanks for the advice, Dianne.

Good luck with the new job.

Simon

I used Axxis Ultimates (<$100 for a full set - front & rear) at VIR-S in April, with Motul RBF600 fluid, Goodridge stainless lines, and WRX front rotors (a little bit bigger than RS rotors). I had no problems with braking, and I'm still using the pads for street and autox. They're down to about 50% now. I'm starting to think they might last forever.

Have fun!

Thanks, Kevin. However, these people http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread/t-387056.html have a different opinion.

Thoughts?

Well, how many times have you "raced" your car on a road course? Never? Okay, how hard are you planning to push it? Are you going to ABS-brake every corner, or are you going to take it easy? I wasn't doing time trials at VIR, I was doing HPDE. Big difference. I didn't go out there planning to exceed the limits of my car (including the brakes). The last two sessions on the second day of the school, I did get a little bit of gradual fade after about 25min on track, but the brakes didn't suddenly "go away" or anything. At this point, I was pushing pretty hard - but not as hard as I would push if I were racing the clock.

Think about what your goals for the weekend are, and plan accordingly. If you plan to push your car past its limits, you should probably tow it to the track so you can have a way home...

; )

PS - one thing I've noticed a lot is how readily people on nasioc make sweeping conclusions such as "stock springs aren't good enough for autox" (I won FTX at Rocky Mt on mine, and Aaron was 2nd on his) or "Axxis Ultimates aren't good enough for HPDE." It all depends on your own goals - not on somebody's expectations of what your goals should be.

Can you recommend a source?

Thanks for the advice, Kevin.

Simon

I believe THoff carries Axis.

I'll agree with Kevin's "intended use" line of thought. As a first time novice on track, you simply will not push the car that hard, nor should you. I'm still a track novice (Roebling will be my 4th school) so I know that I don't drive the car anywhere near the limit. Don't get me wrong - we're still going plenty fast, but until you ride with your instructor (regardless of the car they drive) you won't really understand how hard you can push the car.

Now, with that said, if there's anything you should over-engineer for track, it's your brakes. Get the best pad your budget allows.

_________________
Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

Call Matt Nicholson at Carbotech, that's where I got mine.

Also wanted to point out that I have nothing bad to say about the Bobcat; don't have anything at all to say about them because I haven't used them. Wait, I take that back - I used them on a run in Tom's WRX at the test n tune. His brakes felt practically identical to mine. Just wish I could say the same about power...

Kevin

Simon,

Definately take a set of pads with you. I wasn't prepared when I went to VIR-S in April. I ran the pads off the car and wasn't able to run in my last session. Also the drive home was scary. Lots of coasting and down shifting.

When I talked to the guys at Carbotech, they said that the Bobcat pads were good for the street and autox use but not especially good for track use. I seem to remember Kendra testing a set for them at VIR. She might have some insight. Matt would definately be able to give you some direction.

Have fun at Roebling.

Some info from VIR-S this weekend:
Car - Miata
Started my Azenis at 34 cold, they went up to 39 hot. I took about 1 psi out and they stayed around 38 hot for the rest of the weekend. Seemed to work fine for my car.
Started out on Hawk HP+ pads that were at about 60% of pad life. Dot 4 Castrol LMA fluid installed 4 months ago. Brakes were fine all weekend, probably cause I'm slow. I'll check the pads this weekend and probably change them before I try VIR-F in a couple of weeks. New fluid time too.

Pitted next to a guy in a 350Z (not a "track" model - no Brembos). He said last time he ran South he had Panthers front and Bobcats in the back and used a complete set in a weekend with lots a brake heat issues. Ran all Panthers this time with seemed fine. Second hand info so take it with a grain of salt but I'd advise avoiding the Bobcats and go with the Panthers. Matt N. can certainly be your friend with this issue.
VIR-S is hard on brakes, especially so for fast heavy cars.

It was my first trip to VIR-S after doing North a couple of times in the Spring. Much different, much fun. Even got Cameron Shaw (my instructor) home in one piece.
Frank

Mine, in autocross trim, is 3005 lb and 60% front.

I had severe brake fade at a BMWCCA autocross at Laurens last fall. Their events are a _lot_ faster (top of 3rd!) than an SCCA or Tarheel style autocross and the runs are close together as well. Track driving is bound to be worse. Granted, like Kevin A. said, you aren't going to be at 100%. But WRX's are so heavy and relatively underbraked that the added confidence/security is a very good thing.

I would highly highly suggest talking to Matt at Carbotech and getting whatever he reccomends.

Re: tires: People who track drive the Azenis all rave about them. Don't be surprised if they get a bit greasy, but still predictable. I'd leave the Contis as home unless there is a hurricane coming.

--Kevin H.

_________________
2003 WRX (again!)