THSCC Forums

I think the variety thing is a product of the track. You can only switch from location to location but so fast. Rockingham was easier cause it was all right there. But think about it this way... F&S has TWO guys out there, and they still only manage a few different shots, most of them on straights (which is boring as hell) when your camera settings make it look like you're sitting still.

Even the shots that Mark takes that are similar in composition are worlds apart...



And I'd rather have one, two, or three different high quality views than four or five pieces of crap, or "If Only" shots.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

RE: Data acquisition. I'll relate this story which was a conversation we had in yellow class this weekend.

As many of you may know, there are two common lines through 1 and 2. I divide them into a front wheel drive and low hp line and the medium to high hp and rear wheel drive lines.

The first: turn in at the cone in 1, hit the apex and track ALL the way out to the gators exiting 2 hoping to stay on the pavement. Then take a sweeping line to the turn in for 3.

The 2nd: drive past the cone to the very edge of the track. Turn in to the apex but exit about center track. Draw as straight a line as you can to the turn in for 3.

I used to think, and many folks still do, that the turn in cone for 1 is WAY early. That was until I found out that it was set by Peter Krause and a couple other excellent drivers. Maybe Mark Donahue and Boris Said were involved but I don't know for sure. Since finding that out I've modified my line to turn in at the cone. After all that group of drivers will ALWAYS know more than I can ever hope to on what line is best.

So, on to the story. I was talking about the two different lines and suggested that those that hadn't yet tried the other line do. that is after asking their instructors if it was OK.

Well Bernie Bakke who drives a corvette and thus fitting in my 2nd category, drove both lines. He has data acq in the car. He said he drove both and overlaid the data so he could see which was faster. Amazingly even f or his nose heavy HP car the 1st line was faster. In fact, according to him driving that line produced his fastest laps!!!

I've always kind of felt that the first line (turn in at the cone) was going to be fastest but now have at least one data point to prove it.

This year I almost stepped up to the data acq table. Its a small step but I now have the hot laps in car lap timer in the car. True only one data point but a pretty good one. At least now I can make changes during a lap and see if it has the desired affect. Not sophisticated at all but enough for what I need/ want/ want to pay!

R

Not a HANS for motorcycles, but close.

CLICKY CLICKY

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

Wow... could this thread be an ANY more tangents?

Hans for Motorcycle (and lots of interest in the automotive version as well): Leatt-Brace

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

Turning in AT the cone FTW!!!

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I never gave it that much thought but you're right Stacy. I bought them from F&S when we were there last April. The guy had over 60 pictures of my car. In almost all but a couple it looks like all the cars on track stopped and posed. They are kind of boring.

Now there is also a block of 10 pictures shot very rapidly. It was me coming into T1. Let's just say I was braking too late and took a fairly late, wide, and dusty apex... Those pictures actually look I was doing something. Figures I'd get caught really screwing up

I'll send Mark an email and check his pics out.

Btw, F&S has a deal with VIR. Whether you want them there or not. I've seen them at VIR with 4 different clubs now.

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http://www.greywinds.com

This is interesting to hear because my instructor who is a specE30 driver was having me turn in about 2-3 feet BEFORE the cone. This was the first time an instructor had told me to do this so i didnt know what quite to think. it did seem to put me out wider sooner and really allow me to rimshot T1.

He took me for a ride and did just what he said. It was definitely working for him and he flew around the edge of that thing and was into 4th well before the cone on the right where i normally shift.

Thats fine, and we certainly won't ask them to leave. But it certainly doesn't give them the right to give our guy a hard time (which they did).

P.S. ... I should probably change my Avatar huh? LOL

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I've been hassled by those guys when Bowie asked me up to shoot his 13 Hour effort. Now I know who they are.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I didn't realize they were giving other photographers a hard time though. Maybe you or Mark needs to talk to VIR and find out exactly where that whole situation stands. If F&S has the right to be there AND so does our club photographer. Then make it clear to them Saturday morning when they setup camp. They probably haven't figured out that someone wants another photographer because they just might do a better or different job...

When we go to RR there is an older gentleman that takes pictures. He wanders around the pit area and shows you some prints. If you do or don't want them that's fine. I have one really nice shot he took that I bought the print from him.



He, he. I was going to heckle you about that. I got a chuckle out of reading your comments on F&S, while looking at your F&S avatar

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http://www.greywinds.com

Ron,

That doesn't surprise me. With my 3920lb, 400hp, M5 (modified camber/suspension/tires ), I seem to take a line similar to what you describe as line 1 like Bernie did for his fastest time. On track out from the apex, I am gently and slowly rolling on power until I can get to full throttle close to the track out point, near the gators on the outside, although sometimes I don't end up needing all the room that is there. It is a combo of very gently opening up the wheel and rolling on power, balancing those two just right, and using up almost all of the track. I've found that if I tone down the speed into the apex just a tad, I can really rocket out of 2 using almost all of the track out room, but not quite (seems like there is extra pavement out there), and get to full throttle sooner than other lines I have tried.

I don't purport to be a VIR wiz at all (that’s a promise )...just my experiences FWIW.

Chuck

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Data acquisition(traqmate), does not match my hud speed readings. So I'd agree that speedo readings can't be believed....But they are "fairly" close...As long as they don't get enhanced by testosteone. The data acq always indicates slightly lower speeds.
I don't intend to race, But I do want to drive as well and as fast as I can. I believe that the Traqmate has already helped me to improve, in both track and autocross. If I get the urge for wheel to wheel, I'll get the necesssary safety gear. But for right now I'm happy with what I've got, Chucks post validates what I've found this weekend with the Traqmate.

The hud doesn't distract from observing the track and surroundings you have to force yourself to look down at the hood to see it. When I'm driving its really quite transparent, so maintaining concentration outside the car is not a factor. In fact I believe that I only looked at the HUD two or three times the whole weekend. I never look at the speedometer or the gages and I guess that a scan routine of the instruments would be a good thing. I just haven't progressed that far yet, I'm just about overloaded with watching the external events ie. cars, your line, the flags, etc and concentrating on left foot braking and heel and toe.

Dan I'm surprised your instructor was having you turn in BEFORE the cone at 1! Now to me that's damned early. I try to turn in at the cone and still have to feather the throttle to the apex. And I use just about all the pavement that I can at exit. Sometimes I worry about setting the left rear off in the dirt at the end of the gator! I can't imagine turning in any earlier since I'd run out of track at track out.

When you turn in that early are you inducing oversteer to get the back end around early?

Ron

Thanks to the new sealer at VIR, the rain line sure is interesting. I don't mean interesting in a *good* way, either. I did a member day up there yesterday in the SM and it was fairly brutal. I probably did 20 laps, but just got bored picking apart each corner for a little bit less sucky grip here and there. I feel like I've got fine car control in the wet, and I really don't feel like I'd remember enough of the actual "good" wet line the next time I was there in the wet anyway, so it just wasn't any fun.

Besides, Bill Black put it best in the garage yesterday..."Just when you think you've got the rain thing figured out is when it's time to put it back on the trailer before you tear it up. Confidence isn't necessarily good to have in this stuff." I liked that.


--Donnie

I'd buy one of these!

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2002 MCS, 2003 MCS Track Rat, 2003 Generic White Yukon, 2003 BMWk1200rs, 1973 CB350F, 02 996. 08 Cayenne Turbo
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