THSCC Forums

No shuffle steer in T4 Rob?

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Other than an old Z car, did you pass anything wasn't a Miata?

I sent John Feb results and YTD Points Friday.
He should have it on the web site now-will follow up if not.
Results will also appear in the next H&T.

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Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net

AMB results are up as well.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Jim even before I watched the result I was saying you turned in too early for turn 4. Indeed the exit was so far track right you had to bend to the left to get around the curbing for 5. Next time wait a little longer for 4 and your exit will be center track. You will then be able to get back on the throttle immediately for 5. My guess it will save you .5 or more seconds.

And boy, does that car UNDERSTEER at the limit! Not terrible but those tires sure were singing in 11 and especially in 17! Are you on the throttle through 17 or just, as Peter Krause says, station keeping power? It sounded like the later in the video. If you slow down a bit more at 16 you can turn in for17 under power and get through there a bit cleaner.

All that said, congrats on breaking the sub 2:20 mark!!

R

I agree on turn 4. The video shows how NOT to take turn 4! I had to really hustle the car back to 5 and to have any hope to get out of 6 with good throttle. I was bitching at myself all the way up the bridge straight.

I feel I am trying to carry too much speed in 17-17a. That is causing the push on exit of 17a and delaying my throttle. As a matter of fact, it is usually a crap shoot if I keep all four tires on pavement on the exit of Oak Tree.

As for 17, it seems as the day worn on, I was getting worse at that turn. Maybe because of the line into 14-14a gave me more speed down roller coaster. So if I was using the same braking, that would be causing the issue in 17. As the day wore on, I was definitely "station keeping power" through there.

Saturday was the first time I have been DFL in class So I had to make up for it somewhat Sunday. I know the Camaro is the sleeper ITE car Depending on who you believe (CMC site or NASA-MA) site, I am about 3 seconds back of the CMC track record.

The CMC site has 2:16:4 and the NSAS-MA has 1:55.8. I can not imagine a CMC prepped car running 1:55 though.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

You should here mine sing. Especially on North Course through the Stevie Wonders.



I know that is taught, but it's depends on your car's handling. In my car, slow down for 16 then and try to stay on the power in my car through 17. Quickly you will discover that the LF tire will say "try it and watch me drop off the left side of the track". I just don't have the traction to get thru there very fast.

OTOH, I was behind Ryan in the TT and watched him floor it thru 17. He left me like I was sitting still. Race rubber and a car that doesn't push like a pig has it's advantages.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Vincent the reason to be on the power, any amount but on the power, is the dip before the apex for 17. If you are just constant throttle through there there is a chance that the back end will break loose when it unweights coming out of the dip. If you have the suspension loaded up it will help keep that from happening.

As for race vs street tires, yeah, it will make a BIG difference on the speed you can carry. As does suspension. BUT, the line will be the same! So if you are pushing through 17/ 17A then you need to slow down more for the entrance of 17 so you can be applying throttle all the way through both apexes. I promise you it will yield better lap times. Don't believe me? that's fine. Just try it a couple times. Check your speeds at track out both ways.

The exception to the above is for big heavy cars that don't want to change direction well. For them the later turn in for 1, straight shot to 3 and the straight shot between 11 and 11A are the modifications to the line. Otherwise the most successful way to get through 17/ 17A doesn't vary from car to car. Hit both apexes and track out at most 2/3 track left between them.

Vincent you are doing the right thing in sticking with street tires. Continue on them and you will continue to develop a driving style that will reward you if/ when you change to sticky tires. Then YOU can catch Ryan!

R

I'm not "coasting", just not *flying* like some others. I definitely feel the dip as it unsettles the car, but I've done so many laps that I know exactly how the car will react and it's never been a problem.

I'm staying with street tires beause:

a) Without negative camber I shred the outer edges
b) Doing 12 events this year I need to keep my costs down.

Edit: Race tires or not, Ryan can drive...period. He can't autocross , but he's damn good on track.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

I stayed on streets my whole time as a student and part of the time as an Instructor. Nothing more fun then making the corner workers reach for the yellow flag each and every lap!

See you at VIR N!

Hell...

Street tire squeal is how I know I'm doing Oak Tree properly

-Stacy

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I can drive a car "OK" that is super easy to drive. Until I can consistently get down to where Ron is, I wont be cleaning off a place on my mantle for the HPDE World Champion Trophy.

All I need to do is talk to Bowie Jr (which I did after this event) to bring my ass back down to earth. While I was all giddy over 2:27's, Bowie Jr clicks off laps 10 seconds faster

I have put my time in on Street tires (both AX and Track) and have my reasons for running RA-1's on track. However, this weekend I am probably gonna run 1 session on my street tires just for my homies

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Ryan its not quite a fair comparison either with Bowie or me. Bowie's car is WAY more developed then either of ours. He has a REAL motor vs ours which are stock (well, until I have the head done on mine!).

My car is probably a bit lighter then yours and I've been doing this a bit longer then you.

Being at the sharp end of the CSP pack is quite an accomplishment as CSP has many good drivers.

R

Ryan and I were bench racing about this Sunday afternoon...

Stupid question:
For those of us (I guess just me) REALLY cheap SOB's...what does the peanut gallery think a "real suspension" (coilovers/sways/fresh bushings) and R-compounds are worth in terms of laptime in an otherwise stock 1.8L NA Miata on VIR-F? My car only has KYB adjustables on stock springs and a rollbar. Stock intake/exhaust. Some missing (broken and removed) interior trim but nothing really appreciable in terms of weight reduction.

Is it worth 2 seconds a lap? 5 seconds a lap? 10 seconds a lap?

I found a 2:37 out there but I'm a little hesitant to try and find much more since I have to drive it home and to work (for now). I think my money is best spent on some race seats that would help me to feel what the car is doing and after that, a data acquisition device and concentrate on wringing every last bit of grip that it has at as many events as I can afford tires/brakes/gas for. Thoughts?

I'm just curious of what I'm leaving on the plate versus what the car is capable of as configured. As an instructor I agree with the Ron Spencer school of thought on staying on street tires and have continued to do so for my first events as an instructor but I'm starting to get the itch for the more expensive go-fast crack rubber and suspension bits...I'm not sure if crossing that bridge will help or hurt me in the long term. Ron?

Everyone else seems to be running a modified Miata on sticky tires in the TT, so I'm left with no one to compare with. I guess maybe a SS? racecar would be a closer comparison but there is still the tire question...

Regards,
--Ashraf

My guess, and its only that, is sticky tires are worth 3 seconds or more on full course. Suspension? Hard to say but figure 1 or 2 seconds depending on how badly your car understeers now. Drop the cat, get a cold air intake, perhaps worth another second or second and a half. It all adds up.

Indeed if you wish to be competitive in the TT then you will have to move to race tires. My point on staying on streets is to learn the basics until they become automatic. Then move on to sticky tires where you can get the most out of them.

I'm afraid a LOT of people move to sticky tires to cover mistakes. That will not make you as fast as you can be.

Remember mine are only guesses. What you should do is find someone who is knowledgeable about Miatas and get their input on the steps to take to improve the car. My guess: suspension, open exhaust and intake, then tires.