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Here's a link to a video of a guy doing the One Lap event at VIR last year. He's not too familiar with the track it seems given his line out of 2, early turn in to 4 and then turn 10 just waiting for him.

Here in 10 he turns in too early, gets on the power, and is understeering heavily (note wheel position as the car slides toward the outside of 10). He doesn't respond properly by opening up the wheel lock and steering off the outside of 10. I'm not sure if he lifted or not, but as soon as he hits those gators with the steering wheel at that angle, understeering that hard, it's goodbye Noble.

I'm guessing he was hoping to make it work a bit too hard since I don't think you get a second chance at your standing start timed lap in the One Lap event.

http://www.whitisconsulting.com/videos/virtirewallhd1080i.wmv

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Ouch, that had to hurt the wallet.

Respect T10 (Southbend). I had a similar journey thru there at my first track event on South Course. Too fast, too early but I didn't lift and lived to tell. Charlie Gutherie was my instructor, he told me not to do that again, that was fast enough.

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Richard, if you have the coho'nes to hammer T10 on your first trip to VIR then i must say "my compliments bubba".

there is a butt load of track out over the crest of the hill @ T10. hogpen however, IMO, will sneak up on ya.

Definitively no lift in 10, you better brake a little more at the entry and then stay on the gas all the way down the hill, and don't early apex.
One time I was with a student and we where following a 944 ( these are supposed to be well balance car ) well, it spin in 10 in front of us, luckily he didn't hit anything and we didn't hit it.

Patrice

Ditto on Southbend (T10). If you feel you're going in too hot...clinch those cheeks together and hold on. Don't lift or touch that brake pedal!

I still remember my very first event at VIR-S with Mark V as my instructor. He was screaming DON'T LIFT, DON'T LIFT as I entered T10 a little faster than I wanted...in the rain! We survived, and I haven't lifted since.

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Vincent Keene
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'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

My only hard hit in racing came due to a lift in South Bend in my SM. Mild concussion, car was completely smashed on passenger side, broken steering rack, broken motor mount, cracked helmet were the casualties. Raced it the next day, though.

The "no lift" is definitely the best policy, because if you still can't hang it, going off into the field isn't so bad. Lifting will put you going off to driver's left, though, and into "my" tire wall. The other key, as has been mentioned, is DO NOT EARLY APEX it.

I'm as fast as anyone through there now, but it took a good many laps to find the cajones again. That headache was pretty significant.

But hey, since then I've had some great finishes at VIR including winning the 13 hour. In that same car, no less.


--Donnie

Odd. I find you can't turn early enough for South Bend. I turn before I ever see any curbing. My left wheels are in the dirt. Never had a "moment" there either. But you MUST brake before entering. The mistake people seem to make is they carry too much speed, then say "SHIT!", lift/hit brakes, wind up in tire wall.

IF you don't have wings'n'things, you must brake for 10.


Matt<--founding member of "turn early and floor it!"

Edit: The Noble's downfall was he had too much steering input when he hit the trackout curbing and put a rear tire in the dirt. Game over, thank you for playing, here's your parting gift, better luck next time. Just straighten it and put 2 off.

Basically, he ran out of talent....

There's a difference between "turn early enough" and "early apex."

IMHO, the newbie mistake is getting sucking into turning early and *too much*, causing an early apex, and then doing the "oh shit" thing. Of course, excess speed helps with that. But if you're at the apex too early, the reason "oh shit" happens is not just because you have a lot of turning left, it's because you know it and can't see just how much because of the hill.

You definitely don't need to late apex South Bend, but I don't think an early apex is going to lend itself to fast laptimes, even if you don't get scared and do scrub enough speed.

All that said, I'll be much happier when I get the Acura back and it has its new wings.


--Donnie

Read Chris's write up and he is, to no ones surprise, the line taken by a high horsepower heavier car. In class I know we will talk through the two lines available for turns 1 and 2. For a low horse power car you WILL track all the way out to the left side of the track in turn 2. In fact you may wish it were a bit wider.

I haven't read Peter's write up in a while but I think there are some changes from it since its been written. I think Pete wrote it before driving it hard. Very difficult to do that.

Richard, don't worry too much about trying to get the line before you come out to play We'll put a great instructor with you who will keep you safe, get you on line and make sure you have boat loads of fun!

Ron

Everyone,

Thanks for the tips, links, etc. That is exactly what I wanted. I mostly just want to get familiar with the layout and know in advance what the problem areas are and how to deal with them. I am also not going to pretend that I am going to be able to watch the videos, read turn by turn analysis and expect that to give me all the answers.

I just didn't want to show up and have little clue as to what the track is like. Maybe it is my autocross experience coming through in that I want to have a total mental image of the track in advance vs. figuring it out the first time out in the car. I think I probably will absorb and process the classroom and in car instruction better if I am not focusing on which way the next turn goes (left or right?)

Richard

PS: I will respect Southbend.

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Richard Casto
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Richard one great thing about VIR is you can see most of the turns (at least on full course) well before you get to them. Turns 17/17A and turn 14 are exceptions.

Mike talks about lifting in 17 to get rotation and then cautions its an ADVANCED technique. Indeed! DO NOT lift in 17! Your brain will tell you to lift and unless you are at the limits you may (most likely will) get away with it. But its a bad habit to get into. It will be MUCH more obvious once you drive it but there is a dip at a critical point in 17 and if you lift because of it you will, when at or near the limit, spin. Unless you have Mike's car control skills (which are very, very good!) you won't like the outcome.

That said, its a very fun and challenging track. Big rewards for getting it right.

C ya then

Ron

+1

DON'T LIFT IN HOGPEN...i don't think that can be said enough...if you lift, chances are you will end up nosed into the armco on the inside of hogpen...if you get in trouble, there is PLENTY of room on the outside of the turn, use that instead (trust me, i've toured the countryside out there, you can go a long way )...you are much better off staying in the gas if you get in trouble in hogpen

Mike is actually the first person i've ever heard say they lifted in hogpen on purpose...there are a few different lines through there with much speed to be gained, but thats another discussion all together

as far as southbend (T10) goes, i think others have said it...if you get in trouble there (mainly dropping wheels off at the exit)...just open the wheel and go straight off, dont lift and/or fight the car back on track...people that do that typically end up in the tires at the bottom of the hill

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Whenever an "a ha" moment and a "oh shit" moment coincide, you're going to have a bad day.

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So. Dreamy.

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Agreed. I just wanted to show another perspective of getting around the track. The first one I read and studied was the one written by PK. It is a very good primer. I found Chris' later and tried to apply it after conversations with him about it. But it still has many pertinent parts regardless of your car.

When I did my homework before going to each track. I read whatever I could and watched videos of many different cars running those tracks. I tried to open up my view of it and not be stuck with a myopic view from only a RWD big HP car. I borrow the line a Miata or Civic would take on some parts of the track or at certain times as it suits my need.




Yep when it is all said and done Richard you'll get excellent classroom instruction and advice as it applies to you, your car, and your skill level. Your in car instructor will guide you through the course and you'll have a good time and be safe. Once you get in the car the instructor is the final say. Do what he/she tells you, period. Not what you read on the internet... Anything you question, do it after the fact. They're telling you to do it for good reason. I have yet to have a bad instructor.

I'm with you on doing your homework Richard. From your AX background and wanting to know ahead of time. You will not be starting from dead 0. That's a good thing. But as you know from AX. People can tell you how it feels, but until you do it, it isn't the same. Then when you review that course hot lap description it'll make even more sense.

Good luck, you'll have a good time. VIR is an excellent track. Wish I could go but my season start is delayed for a bit...

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