Hoosier A3S05 for track use?

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

I can get some new Hoosier A3S05s really cheap. I'm looking at running 305/30-18s on all 4 corners. Rotating front/back and/or left/right to even the wear. I'd rotate at the end of each day. So assume 3-4 25min sessions. I'd use these for Roebling and VIR Full.

While I realize the R is their track tire. There aren't any left in the size I need at that price. It's A3S05 or no Hoosier for now.

Has anyone run A's (04/05/06) on track?
How many sessions/weekends would they last before they cord?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:15 am

Put as much camber in the car as you can. Some people corded A3S05's within 15 autocross runs. Track wise, it's hard to say. - AB

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:13 pm

Drive smoother. Pretend you have 150hp, not 505hp. don't sping the tires. Slow down coming into the corner and then accellerate gradually out of the corner. Make sure you rotate every other set of runs. :wink:

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:29 pm

Don't waste your money. In fact, I'd consider running autocross tires on a road course to be dangerous. We've joked about using some for three to four *laps* in a qualifying session just to try to get a flyer in and quit before they blow. I honestly don't think you'd get much out of them, and I honestly think they could even be considered somewhat dangerous.

--Donnie

Matt Nicholson · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:40 pm

Do NOT run the autocross Hoosiers on a road course.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:34 pm

geez Graham, with those tires you might have to go full off 4 wheel agricultural around turn 1 to get some good pictures.

or you could autoX once or twice this year. i should make the Sanford events if nothing else this year.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:37 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

How many sessions/weekends would they last before they cord?

I'm guessing 3, maybe 4 all out laps of VIR full? :shock:

Be mindful of a blowout when they cord quicker than you would think.

David White · **Joined:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:19 pm **Posts:** 54

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Don't waste your money. In fact, I'd consider running autocross tires on a road course to be dangerous. We've joked about using some for three to four *laps* in a qualifying session just to try to get a flyer in and quit before they blow. I honestly don't think you'd get much out of them, and I honestly think they could even be considered somewhat dangerous.

Quote:

Do NOT run the autocross Hoosiers on a road course

T1 vette drivers would disagree, they seem to be pretty successful running A6's...

having said that, for DE's, i wouldnt bother with the autoX compound unless they are dirt cheap...how about a less sticky and more durable tire like an RA1 type tire? they should last a LOT longer...

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Ok so I got a hold of one of the Hoosier reps. The A will wear faster than the R. But you can use them for track. Apparently Hoosier doesn't distinguish the tires quite the way we all interpret them. They wouldn't go along with 4 weekends which is what I was hoping for. 2, maybe 3 weekends. Possibly 1 weekend if I wear the outer edge too much.

I also posted on CF and didn't get much at first but then someone else started a thread on Hoosier R vs A on track and that got the ball rolling.

Aaron, That is what is going to hurt me. I have -1.5 front and -1.0 rear. They told me to watch out for the edge, especially on the 05. So even rotating front to rear, at Hossiers suggestion, they won't last long because I'll cord the edges.

As David White pointed out (he's reading the same thread as me on CF). Let's correct a myth that Hoosier A will explode on track after a few laps. ALL of the T1 racers who run Hoosier use the A6, not just for qualifying, but for the whole race. 3100lb Z06 - Lance Knupp won the runoffs, fastest lap was lap 16! Mr. Heinrocket, fastest lap on lap 13. Then Pintarac in a 3700lb Viper fastest lap was lap 11. So yes Donnie, you could use some to blister off that fast qualifying lap since they will be fast right out of pit road. Especially if you can come up with -3.0 camber.

David, I ran a combination of GY SC that comes on the Z06 and then Nitto R2 (similar to the Toyo RA1). I like them. And they most certainly last a while. Was just curious about trying the Hoosier. Btw, No you can't run at the NCM event in your car. None of the plastic car boys want you running laps around them. :lol:

I've ridden with Jody chasing you around VIR. I have a very good idea how fast you are.

So what started all of this. Well I can get a set of new A3S05 in 305/30-18 for $480 shipped for the set of 4. I figured if I could get 4 weekends (or at least 3) out of these. Then 2 sets would cost me less than 1 set of R2 or RA1.

Scratch another theory I had...

Graham

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:34 pm

Good info and not what I expected. I based my guess on my experience with the A6. I corded the outer edges of a brand new set of A6's after about 12 runs at the NCAC 45 second autox course. This was on the 2003 330i zhp with about -1.4 degrees of front camber and cold pressures of 42psi (upped that to 46psi by end of weekend). Hence I figured you wouldn't get too far on the A3S05. The A6's were fully soaked with water between runs, etc. I guess with decent camber, in the range of -3.0 that the Hoosier engineers strongly wanted, they must last well enough on track. The lead engineer told me to start with 50psi cold next time. :shock:

Here's the LF tire after 16 total runs on a ~45 second course:

David White · **Joined:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:19 pm **Posts:** 54

Graham Jagger wrote:

Btw, No you can't run at the NCM event in your car. None of the plastic car boys want you running laps around them. :lol:

I've ridden with Jody chasing you around VIR. I have a very good idea how fast you are.

hehe, i should be there teaching others my bad habits (aka instructing)...jody has gotten a LOT faster in the last year, couple that with his new ride and him getting started racing this year (which will make him even faster), it will probably be me chasing him around vir...

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:24 am

I'm not entirely surprised that they'll last a whole race, but I would be extremely surprised if they lasted two full HPDE weekends, even with plenty of camber. I'd also think you wouldn't need as much camber as the autocross folks are pointing out on a road race car setup well, since it wouldn't roll nearly as much. But you will need more than you've apparently got, that's for sure.

--Donnie

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Good info and not what I expected. I based my guess on my experience with the A6. I corded the outer edges of a brand new set of A6's after about 12 runs at the NCAC 45 second autox course. This was on the 2003 330i zhp with about -1.4 degrees of front camber and cold pressures of 42psi (upped that to 46psi by end of weekend). Hence I figured you wouldn't get too far on the A3S05. The A6's were fully soaked with water between runs, etc. I guess with decent camber, in the range of -3.0 that the Hoosier engineers strongly wanted, they must last well enough on track. The lead engineer told me to start with 50psi cold next time. :shock:

That sux Chuck! I would be pretty upset paying full price for some A6 or R6 only to have them cord after a dozen runs.

Seems you have 2 problems here. 1 is the camber for sure. The other is what I see Donnie pointed out. On track you don't turn as hard and sharp as AX. So meeting Hoosiers -2.5 minimum camber would seem to be even more critical in AX. On track the extended heat cycle would seem to be the worst part. This of course is theory and conjecture... :wink:

When I talked to the Hoosier tech guy he also said bump up air pressure beyond what you do with any other tire you own. He wanted me to get ~42lbs hot in the front. Especially if not enough camber. Since the Vette has IRS he said the rears could be a bit lower if I kept some camber in the rear, which I do.

The other thing they explained to me was about Hoosier in general. You have to get used to their tires on track. Under hard turns and hard braking. The tires don't give you that "hard grip" feel. They almost feel like they are "skating". He said not to drop pressures to get grip back. You would end up with not enough pressure and cord the sidewall.

Mark Vitacco · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:26 pm

Hoosier A compound tires are not going to explode on track but they will probably start to go away much sooner than the Road Race Compound and not last long. For a FEB event with cold ambiant temps, this may actually work out pretty good, because it is usually difficlut to get
the tires up to temp to where they work.

I would never run the rain tire in the dry. They would most definatly
over heat and possibly reach the point of distruction-assuming they
did not cord before comming apart.

David White · **Joined:** Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:19 pm **Posts:** 54

Mark Vitacco wrote:

I would never run the rain tire in the dry.

+1

At road atl last year, it had been raining on and off and i qualified in the rain on hoosier wets. That afternoon, the track was still wet and it was cloudy so i elected to keep my rain tires on (plus i figured it would rain again). While we were on grid, the sun came out and the track started to dry. I did fine the first few laps but once the track really started drying i couldnt hold my competitors off any longer (they were on dry tires) and dropped a few spots. Thankfully the ambient temps were pretty low but i still did some damage to the tires (they werent totally destroyed but they did show signs of blistering). Interestingly, i ran the same lap times in the wet as i did in the dry on those tires.

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