Preparing a car (& person) for time trials

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

What safety equipment is required &/or desired? Not talking about unlimited budget here, but don't want to compromise.

Approximate costs would be appreciated.

Not something I'm going to be doing (with the Impreza) anytime soon, just doing some figuring.

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:49 pm

www.thscc.com

click "track"

click "faq"

and it will bring you here:
http://www.thscc.com/timetrial/faq.htm

I bet this will answer your question, plus a bunch you may not have thought about yet.

Anders

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Typical, safe entry level system:

Autopower or Kirk bolt-in 4-point bar
SFI padding
G-force or other 5-point harness (eye bolts on the floor)
Fire bottle on stout metal bracket

That's about it. The rest of your car is in fine shape.

Kevin Allen wrote:

Not something I'm going to be doing (with the Impreza) anytime soon, just doing some figuring.

Why not?

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I had read through that earlier, but I missed this part somehow:

http://www.thscc.com/timetrial/faq.htm#thirtyeight

Let's say I acquire a car and want to prepare it for time trials. It would need a roll bar, harnesses and fire extinguisher. That's it?

And the roll bar could be installed by a local shop, correct? What if I wanted to do some Club Rally at some point with the same car? Would the roll bar requirements be different? (I'm thinking they would, but not sure)

Here's the plan, anyway...

Buy a beat-up (but perfectly-functional) Impreza 2.5RS. Autox it. Time Trial it. Rallyx it. Club Rally it in the distant future (if it survives that long :twisted:

). Park it right up front and not worry about somebody dinging it.

Etc. etc. etc.

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:37 pm

Club rally has the same cage rules as prorally and rally sprints (single stage rallies). Rallycross has the same cage rules as autocross.

If you plan on doing that in the future, get a proper cage to begin with... it will be nice for all the other stuff you do. Rally needs a "full" cage.

Go here:
http://www.scca.org/amateur/performance ... index.html
and read article 5.

The cage requirements for rally cars and time trials and road racing are different. I think that the rally spec is much much beefier than the time trial spec, so there would be no compatiblity problems there. However, some of the elements that are *required* in a rally roll cage are *prohibited* on a road racing cage. So if you want to do both rally and road racing (and it doesn't sound like you do) you'll need to do a LOT of research.

I'd seriously consider a 2.2 instead of a 2.5. Save yourself 4 or 5 grand. It will still be plenty fast: a 2.2 beat my 3.0 at Sandblast. Of course he has an extra 10 years of experience, but that just proves that for rally the driving skill is super important. Trade the extra 0.3 liters for a roll cage.

Anders

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Thanks for the info, guys.

Anders - sounds like it would be easier to just buy an already prepared rally car when/ if it's time, than to prep the car I would have.

About the 2.2 - it looks like that's what it's going to be, if I do this. I started looking at autotrader.com and found out most of the 2.5RSes are around $15k! :shock:

And I didn't see any that were below 10. Meanwhile, the 2.2 has 140 hp & lb-ft of torque, weighs a few hundred (?) pounds less, and is selling for much less.

At this point, I'm thinking maybe I should prep the current RS and just get a $1000 car in case the "race car" needs to sit in the garage for a while at some point due to an unfortunate incident.

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:18 pm

Buy this car:
http://www.rallyclassified.com/photo.php?cat=18&de=567

You couldn't build anything close to it for twice the price.

Anders

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:24 pm

Re: $1000 car

Been there, done that. My "backup" car cost a good bit more than $1K, and it ended up costing me significantly more after the purchase. Beware the lure of the cheap car. I'm sure my that my Volvo is the cheap-car exception rather than the rule, but once bitten, twice shy. You don't want to know how much money I have invested into the Swedish oil slick... :oops:

That said, your RS is just too nice IMHO to make a rally/track rat out of it. If anything, shop for a suitable track/rally car that's already completed. 'Tis the season to pick up a race car at a reasonable price. I'm sure you could find something interesting on Ben's Rally page or the SCCA Forums.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:03 pm

I like the $1k car thing. As long as you're handy with the tools, it need not be expensive. It's a function of starting with something that's not only reliable, but easy and cheap to find parts for. My '88 Civic 4 door is ideal. Cost me $1k, put $46 in new front calipers, $40 in new front rotors, $16 for new front pads, $120 in new front axles, $18 in shifter bushings, and $48 in a front wheel bearing. So, I've invested $1288 into the car, and have driven it for 4k miles. Every part, but the shifter bushings, have a lifetime guarantee on them as well

The only part that was absolutely necessary to replace was wheel bearing too.

This car will easily save me 15k miles or more off of my Celica and it gets 35 mpg around town, and uses 87 octane (compared to the required 93 octane for the 11.5:1 compression GT-S :shock:

) Needless to say, I'm very happy with it. It's not luxury, and no, the ladies don't love it, but it gets me where I want to go, very inexpensively. - AB

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

So I've been thinking some more... :roll:

What kind of options are there for a rwd, decently-powered (including TORQUE), fun, track-ready & reliable car for around $5-10k? - Preferably closer to 5k.

I'm thinking BMW, Miata, 240SX(?), but want to hear some experienced opinions...

Kevin

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:59 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

So I've been thinking some more... :roll:

What kind of options are there for a rwd, decently-powered (including TORQUE), fun, track-ready & reliable car for around $5-10k? - Preferably closer to 5k.

I'm thinking BMW, Miata, 240SX(?), but want to hear some experienced opinions...

Kevin

Kevin,

You might want to consider V-8 pony cars (Mustangs and CamaroBirds). They, like every other car short of a real race car like Matt's Radical, have disadvantages. However "slow on the straights" isn't one of them. Brake upgrades (rotors and calipers and better pads) are readily available and relatively cheap. So are extra wheels and tons of other stuff.

Another consideration is that even major stuff that might be bad in a used car is cheap. Brand new transmissions for my car are about $1000 and about the only thing that breaks them is drag race style shifting. They all come with limited slip diffs.

I don't know how reliable the CamaroBirds are but Mustangs are very reliable and just about anybody can work on and fix them cheaply.

Since the same basic packages have been sold for years, pick a price range and go shopping. You can probably get good cars in your price range as new as mid 90's.

If you are looking at track events that restrict passing to the straights, having a better handling car just means you get frustrated in the twisty bits by the cars with more power who passed you on the straights

Not that the pony cars are that "slow" in the twisty bits. Miata's are great autox cars but if you look at road tests for them and V-8's you will see the difference. Ditto for most of the other moderately priced rwd stuff.

Edited to add: I just checked Edmunds pricing for 99 Mustang GT's. Looks like they are at the high end of your range. Starting in 99 (the "angular" body style) the "regular" Mustang GT's got significant HP improvements and somewhat better front brakes and somewhat better rear suspension (wider track and more travel). Wheels are 17 X 8. Cobra/Bullitt/Mach 1 brakes are a bolt on to the GT's.

Joel Heywood · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:51 pm **Posts:** 108

If you did decide to look at mustangs look into a car that is finished or close to finished. Otherwise I would start with used 94-95 cobra. Those years have the old push rod 302 (large aftermarket), large brakes OE and a lug pattern / offset that spans 94 through current.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:39 pm

There's a nice 944 available in the classifieds right now!

http://www.4g61t.com/thsccforum/viewtopic.php?t=214

--Kevin H.
(aka Mr. broken record today)

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:01 pm

Joel Heywood wrote:

If you did decide to look at mustangs look into a car that is finished or close to finished. Otherwise I would start with used 94-95 cobra. Those years have the old push rod 302 (large aftermarket), large brakes OE and a lug pattern / offset that spans 94 through current.

These are great packages. There are a lot of advantages to the Cobra versions of the 302's plus they come with the big brakes. FYI the 99+ GT modular motor is probably just as fast stock (maybe faster) if you prefer a newer car. The early Modular motors (96 - 98) in GT (SOHC) trim are relatively slow (for a V-8). The Cobra Mod motors are all quick but the cars are probably not in your budget. If you plan on doing engine upgrades (cams, etc.) the 302's are MUCH easier to work on than the Mod motors.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:29 pm

A Miata will be fun, but slow. I was rolling them all day long at Roebling on the straights. Bill Gratton (2001 6 speed) was solo and I would pull on him on the straight even with an extra 200 lbs in the passenger seat.

My new engine will be stronger and make the Miatas look even worse...

Of course my new engine will cost nearly a Miata.

Another fun and CHEAP ride would be a used spec RX7. People practically give them away. They are decently fast (like a Miata), handle great and did I mention that they are cheap?

Scott

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