THSCC Forums

I used to run DS-11s on the street with my 510 Datsun. I got better than 50k miles out of them doing Auto-X, street driving and pizza delivery service. But that was back when Tom Bishop started his business out of his house on Cooper Rd.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

Oh yeah...I have recent experience with PFC01, PFC97 and HT-10's. I'm very impressed with all of these.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Todd,

I ran two versions of Panthers on my 01 Mustang in early 01 at VIR South. Rears wore a "little" faster than the fronts but as I recall I got the thinner Cobra version rather than the thicker GT version. Note the Cobra PADS are thinner because the vented rotor is thicker. The calipers are the same so the pad has to be thinner.

Matt can correct me (since he is an actual expert!!!) but the problem is heat, especially with the GT brakes. The front rotors are vented which helps some and the pads are much bigger than the rears. The GT rear rotors are solid and the pads are only slightly bigger than the ones on my Formula Ford . Therefore, even though the rears do less braking, they still get HOT. Lots of Mustang guys run lower performance pads on the rear which, in my opinion, just makes the problem worse. Plus many rear pads are only available (unless you specify the thicker GT version) in the thinner Cobra version.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

That's what I have found Dick. The heat just doesn't have any way to dissipate. I think that if I take the Mustang on track again, I will look into some sort of brake ducting for the rears. Probably do the same for the fronts as well.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

Well since we're talking about rear pads on BMWs, let me share my experiences. These comments all apply to full-tilt-boogie instructor group driving, trying to get 110% out of the car, and with good race pads up front.

- E30 325is with AutoZone "free replacement" Albany rear pads = replace at the end of each day. Rotor friendly. Can't beat the price.
- E30 325is with Pagid (OEM) rear pads = replace every 2 track events, but don't have to change for autox/street
- E30 325is with Axxis Ultimates = the winner. Lasted 4-5 events and no changing. Great on rotors.

- E36 M3 with Pagid or other OEM pads = Nice, probably would last 4 events. No rotor problems.
- E36 M3 with Axxis Ultimates = horrible bad pad transfer and hot spotting (aka warping) but the wear rate was good. Undriveable on the street after the track event. Chucked them and went back to OEM.

Bias must be higher in the M3 and the OEM rear pads seem to work the best for a dual-purpose pad. On the E30 325is the Ulitmates worked best for a rear pad.

YMMV, etc, etc.

PS - I love HT-10s up front, but the M3 has terrible taper wear problems that create a long pedal when the pads are worn. I'll be buying a new set of HT-10s every 2 events and tossing 1/2 worn ones.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

^whats your stance on brass caliper bushings to help w/ uneven pad wear?

Not legal for B-stock, not sure about anything else.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

good answer.. i'm still learning that one..

I mean as a possible solution for you eating up track pads. easy enough to swap in and out if youre already doing pads.

I'm running some and my pad wear looks good, but i probably don't punish pads as much.

As far as maintenance i just wipe em off and relube whenever i swap pads and so far so good.

5 events on Hawk Blues with the brass bushings installed.

the last event was trying as i had to bleed the brakes twice, and still continously pump up the pedal when braking due to the uneven wear.

M3 isn't the only car with pad taper issues... I've done it to 2 sets of pads now. Apparently the C5 is also a victim of this. Now I swap the pads from inside to outside and vice-versa after every event. That moves the leading edge to the trailing edge before the pads become useless. It helps some.

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http://www.greywinds.com

HPS for a first event at Rockingham is fine as even your
stock BMW/Padget pad would have been.

When they wear out you can upgrade to HP+. That is Hawks
autocross and occasional track use pad. Rockingham is NOT
a brake intensive track, in Nov it will be even less brake intensive.

Mark

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Mark Vitacco
THSCC TT Chairman
mvitacco@bellsouth.net

I just put a set of Hawk HP+ pads on the front of the bimmer, so I think Im good to go here...

looking forward to this weekend!!

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

Just to add... those of you like me who track your daily driver or street legal car, and are looking for a quality pad/fluid set-up for both street and track... I may have the answer. (Or at least one of the answers)

I just spent three full days, two at Rockingham, one at CMP... on one set of pads and 6-mo old fluid.

Car specs:
1987 E30 325 w/1989 E30 325i motor and drivetrain (4:10 LSD)
Bilstiens, H&R springs
22/19 mm sways
15x7 Borbet 5-spokes
225/15 Khumo Ecsta V711, 5mo old... 1st track time seen
Full leather interior, radio, power windows, the works (it is my DD)
Stock 3-point belts (I don't believe in the power of harnesses until I have a roll-bar)

Brake specs:
Stock replacement Brembos
Pagid Blue front pads
Axxis Metal Master rear pads
AP Racing 550 fluid
** ALL installed on car June of this year, run on Roebling Road mid-June, then all street until this past weekend **

MY specs:
34, overweight, short & stocky
Upper Intermediate/Advanced Level driver... have done approx 20 HPDEs, no competion except the occasional Time Trial in someone else's car

My car and my brakes lasted ALL weekend with only a 'confidence' bleed of the front calipers at Carolina Motorsports Park. Brakes never faded once. Even on CMP running down near the 2:01/2 mark (which is notorious for making brake pads weep for mercy) and Rockingham in the 1:13/14's.

Still have well over half of both set of pads left.

The ONLY detrimental feel was late Monday, maybe the last two of the six or seven sessions I ran, when I felt a little brake shudder under heavy braking. I can still feel it a little on the street, but it seems to be getting better. Probably just some irregular pad transfer after coming in and not allowing the rotor to cool before stopping.

Granted, ambient temps this weekend were on the cool side, but even at CMP, temps were in the 60's on Monday.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

6 month old fluid ? shame on you Stacy.

BTW, a bar and 6 points will take a second off your times. or so i am told.

Hey... 6 months is still within spec (within 6 months right?) hehe



Add race rubber to that equation and you're talking three or four seconds quicker. BUT... what happens when I'm barrelling out of turn three at CMP, and the rear tires let go while I'm wearing my 6-points with a harness bar in my stock seats?

Rear end comes around and I slide backwards into the armco doing about 70... seat back breaks and my headrest, head, and neck try in vain to go through the harness bar. Best case is I'm in traction for a few months, without a car... I don't even want to think about the worst case.

My point is this... there's no GOOD way to install harnesses without at least a 4-point roll bar. (stepping down off my soapbox now... if by 'BAR' you meant a four or better roll bar, then my apologies)

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant