VIR Full Oct 14/15 w/ Car Guys

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:38 pm

Bowie Gray Jr wrote:

Unfortunately no Rock for us.

That is 13 hour weekend at VIR! Man I can't wait for that one.

Donnie told me that Dan Gurney has signed up for that? I may need to take a trip to VIR to watch - AB

Matt Nicholson · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:13 pm

Re: South Bend. That is THE LAST turn I "got". It took me, literally, years. I knew what needed to be done, but I couldn't make myself do it. In order to do it correctly, you *have* to turn before you see any apex, and you have to trust that the worker is not asleep and there's not a car spun out on the other side. At the top of the last "S" its brakeshiftto4thturningasgo. That early. If you haven't scared yourself at turnin, you aren't turning early enough.

Matt "Turn early and floor it" Nicholson

Mitchell Moore · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:11 pm **Posts:** 197

Bowie Gray Jr wrote:

Putting a wheel off at trackout there will almost certainly spin you back across track to the left at a large rate of speed. The tire wall on the left looks like it is a long way away, but at an exit speed of around 105 or so, it comes up really quickly. I have seen several cars ended there.

I know from experience what happens when you don't brake for South Bend. I don't know how fast I'm usually going around South Bend because I've never looked but it's probably not 105. I usually enter the Esses at 105 and feather the throttle through them and get back at full throttle before braking for South Bend.

This time I did a late pass on a slower car and entered the Esses a lot slower than I normally do. I got to South Bend and did my normal early apex that leaves me a few feet from the curbing at track out. I got to the apex and realize that the car was not turning like it needed too because I had not tapped the brake at turn in. I had subconsciously decide not to brake because I was going so much slower than usual.

As soon as the the right wheel dropped off the track the car did a 180. I was very luck because the car went down the hill backward on the asphalt and stayed on the road till the very bottom of the hill where I hit the number two brake marker.

I advice is to always brake for South Bend but if you want to give it a try be prepared to drive off early. If you drop the right side wheels off you are going to go around.

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:30 pm

Matt too true! Kind of like how you must turn in for 10 (Stevie Wonder) for the cross over on north course. If you wait to see the apex...well, lets just say it won't be pretty....Well, OK, actually it will be pretty. Pretty far off track!

R

Matt Nicholson · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:06 pm

Quote:

I advice is to always brake for South Bend but if you want to give it a try be prepared to drive off early.

I advise against trying this. There is NO WAY you can go through south bend at full chat (10/10ths) in a production based car and NOT brake for it. So, as an instructor, I do not ever let my students get the idea that not braking is ever a good thing. Even if they're going at what I consider to be 5/10ths, they had better get in the habit of hitting the brakes because someday they will be fast enough. And I don't want them coming to find me in the pits after the first time they try to go trough at anything approaching the limit without braking.

"....well hell, I never hit the brakes for that turn before...."

Don't try it. It'll (eventually) be bad. Or at least let me know when you're going to do it so I can go to the south course tower and watch.

Edit: If you come on here and say "I can do it!!!" that just means you probably butchered the uphill esses so badly you are now not even remotely at the limit in SB.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I think I could do it with the STi if I went far enough into the grass when crossing the apex.

(j/k - although I did it with the 2.5RS with just a lift/floor it/turn - but 2.5RSes are sloooooow and have lots of grip)

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:09 pm

Kevin probably true...if you put the right side tires on the inside gators. Be sure the video is rolling when you try! Like Matt I also want to be watching from the south course paddock!

R

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:12 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

I think I could do it with the STi if I went far enough into the grass when crossing the apex.

:D

(j/k - although I did it with the 2.5RS with just a lift/floor it/turn - but 2.5RSes are sloooooow and have lots of grip)

shoulda been there Kevin. it was a good time.

i hear it can be done with a left foot brake and go.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

steve remchak wrote:

yes Corvette brakes rock. however the trick is to go fast enough to actually use them to their full potential. my last session sunday i finally reached the point where i was out braking some of the other Z06 s in my group.

Should have left the stock pads on like I told you instead of using overkill brake pads with the GY F1s. They are fun pads though and they will stop well if you have the tires to match them. Better put your Z06 pads back on for the street. If Dave isn't available I can help you swap them :lol:

steve remchak wrote:

the Z06 turns in more precisely, and quicker i might add, than the 328is. however the Z06 is way more difficult to drive fast on the track. i spent the weekend pointing by as i played the classic "damn Corvette holding up the Miata" scenario. the event was corvette top heavy IMO.

Interesting. Someday I have to drive a 3 series on track and compare. Come on Steve, Vettes are easy to drive. They're just point and shoot. Everyone who doesn't own one knows that :wink:

steve remchak wrote:

while i never have thought of myself as smooth on the track, the Z06 made it quite obvious i was nowhere near smooth and it did it exponentially. i did however learn the meaning of modulation in braking and acceleration. back to the garage for now, but the Corvette will see more track time someday. :roll:

You doubled your HP over your regular track car. So when you hit the gas something happens, like immediately. I love it :thumbsup:

You can actually drive it smoothly. Someday I'll get Jody to take you out for a session in his. Very fast and very smooth. No drama.

I'm glad you at least took it out and enjoyed it instead of staring at it in the garage going, "Oooh looki, pretty car" :wink:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:07 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

yes Corvette brakes rock. however the trick is to go fast enough to actually use them to their full potential. my last session sunday i finally reached the point where i was out braking some of the other Z06 s in my group.

Should have left the stock pads on like I told you instead of using overkill brake pads with the GY F1s. They are fun pads though and they will stop well if you have the tires to match them. Better put your Z06 pads back on for the street. If Dave isn't available I can help you swap them :lol:

steve remchak wrote:

the Z06 turns in more precisely, and quicker i might add, than the 328is. however the Z06 is way more difficult to drive fast on the track. i spent the weekend pointing by as i played the classic "damn Corvette holding up the Miata" scenario. the event was corvette top heavy IMO.

Interesting. Someday I have to drive a 3 series on track and compare. Come on Steve, Vettes are easy to drive. They're just point and shoot. Everyone who doesn't own one knows that :wink:

steve remchak wrote:

while i never have thought of myself as smooth on the track, the Z06 made it quite obvious i was nowhere near smooth and it did it exponentially. i did however learn the meaning of modulation in braking and acceleration. back to the garage for now, but the Corvette will see more track time someday. :roll:

You doubled your HP over your regular track car. So when you hit the gas something happens, like immediately. I love it :thumbsup:

You can actually drive it smoothly. Someday I'll get Jody to take you out for a session in his. Very fast and very smooth. No drama.

I'm glad you at least took it out and enjoyed it instead of staring at it in the garage going, "Oooh looki, pretty car" :wink:

hey Graham, kiss my ass. oh BTW could you send me some directions on changing my pads back.

you shoulda been there, fastest yellow group i have ever run with. corvettes everywhere. scary how fast this car turns in. i nearly put the front right off in hogpen and the front left off at the bottom of the esses.

turns 3 & 4 took on new meaning, 5 was a pain in the ass but 6 & 6a were enlightening. (actually followed what April C. was trying to teach me recently) turn 7 up thru the esses terrible. south bend = driving to the cone. oak tree was easier but not faster, much more velocity down the back stretch ( mnnmm mondo brake pads good) hogpen @ 65mph (wow that is embarrassing) into turns 1 & 2 with no heel & toe in this car. :roll:

damn corvette.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

steve remchak wrote:

hey Graham, kiss my ass. oh BTW could you send me some directions on changing my pads back.

you shoulda been there, fastest yellow group i have ever run with. corvettes everywhere. scary how fast this car turns in. i nearly put the front right off in hogpen and the front left off at the bottom of the esses.

turns 3 & 4 took on new meaning, 5 was a pain in the ass but 6 & 6a were enlightening. (actually followed what April C. was trying to teach me recently) turn 7 up thru the esses terrible. south bend = driving to the cone. oak tree was easier but not faster, much more velocity down the back stretch ( mnnmm mondo brake pads good) hogpen @ 65mph (wow that is embarrassing) into turns 1 & 2 with no heel & toe in this car. :roll:

damn corvette.

I'll pass on the first offer :wink:

But I can email you directions on the pad swap. I can help you if you want. Should take an hour or two. Very easy to do.

Chris Ingle gave me some very good tips on how to get through T1 and setup for T2-T3, and a nice trick for entering T5. Also how to get through the uphill Esses faster. He was right. That's what I worked on when we were there with PCA. South Bend and Hog Pen are the 2 most scariest and fun turns on the course. Full course is rapidly becoming my favorite place. You just can't beat VIR for the layout, facilities, and shorter distance from home.

You just have to get used to the difference between the 2 cars. You'll be fine.

I wish I could have made it. I'm doing Roebling with PCA in early Nov with Rob. Then I'm done for the season unfortunately (not by choice).

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

To add to what Matt says:

"I don't have to brake for T10" == "I was a pussy in the uphill esses".

I remember times when I had trouble getting the car straight long enough to brake coming out of the esses and approaching T10.

It's all about exit speed. From the esses.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I'm thinking I was full throttle all the way down the straight and through the uphill esses with the RS, and still getting to southbend at only around 100mph. Does that sound right? I'm also thinking Matt was hitting at least 110 or so with his SE-R. Maybe I need to go do another HPDE on Full Course to refresh my memory...

And maybe I should do it with the STi to make it lots more interesting.

Quote:

Kevin probably true...if you put the right side tires on the inside gators.

Isn't that where they're supposed to be?

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:04 pm

Only at 100mph eh? Regardless of what the speed might be (unless you are arriving at turn 10 on a riding lawn mower at 5mph!) you will have to either brake a little or lift.....A LOT. Like Bowie pointed out as did Matt and Mike, if you are hustling up the uphill esses you will have to brake for this turn.

In my little Honda I am flat from my turn in for 4 all the way up the uphill esses to turn 10. I HAVE to brake each and every time for 10. Now in a race, with something really important on the line (like say, money) I may, just may try it with a lift to win. But only then and there is no guarantee of success. And like Mike said I too often have to fight to find a place to get straight and back over to track right to enter 10.

Lets tally the results: people that say braking is needed: Matt, Mike, Bowie, myself

People that say it can be taken flat:.......anyone?

You choose which list to be on:)

R

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:04 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

I'm thinking I was full throttle all the way down the straight and through the uphill esses with the RS, and still getting to southbend at only around 100mph. Does that sound right?

I shift to 4th before going under the bridge and I'm flat out thru the esses until I brake for South Bend. My car does about 85MPH in 3rd so I should be near 95MPH in 4th before I brake.

I only have 138whp in a 2950 lb car though.

THSCC Forums

VIR Full Oct 14/15 w/ Car Guys

Who is online