THSCC Forums

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/207032.aspx

That's affordable racing right there.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Jim, I gave some thought to what you said here, and one of the things my buddy Scott - who owned the ITC car I raced in 05 - rings very, VERY true here.

"Race what you can afford to race well if you must race."

I'd say an ITB or ITC car might be for you. The cars are DIRT cheap to build (as race cars go), and you can sometimes find good ones already turned out. They're slow - down a straightaway, anyway - and so consumables (brakes, tires) aren't terrible. In the ITC Civic last year, we'd put I dunno, a total of three enduro weekends (with careful tire management) on a set of Hoosiers?

They also make you a better driver. Want to learn how to really, seriously carry momentum? Spend a year in an ITC car. It'll change your whole outlook. Really, it will.

It really didn't cost a lot to run that car. Even when it broke, which since it was so slow, wasn't real often.

There are some serious shoes racing in ITC, at least there were last year. Vesa Siligren, Gareth Rebstock, Scott Giles, Jinx Jordan, Will Perry, and sometimes even me, on the right weekend when the planets aligned just so...I won some races last year.

In ITB (a class up) you'd have some serious talent to contend with as well. Chris Albin, Sam Moore, Chris Schimmel, "The guys in the Audi Coupes" when they show up and don't break, Mark Vitacco, Trevor Degionnne (sp?)...the list goes on. They're great classes. Neither are as highly subscribed as ITA right now, but ITA is faster and more expensive. But not by a lot.

Don't limit yourself to wreck pinatas (oops...spec miatas). Certainly a great place to go compete, but the IT classes are very much alive and kicking.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Repeat after me: You do not want a T2 Camaro.

They may be slower than an STi, but at least they won't stop, won't turn, and break alot of stuff every weekend.

Lots of cars make sense. A spec Miata makes sense. Buy one for $10K, race it, basically put nothing into it except gas, tires and brake pads, sell it a few years later for maybe a $2K loss.

A T2 Camaro makes no sense....

Jim I left Spec Miata and went the Honda route. Now with the ITA CRX si I hope to go SCCA racing next year (the house should be far enough along by then to free up more weekends!). I'd say the costs of racing the CRX will be in line with or maybe a little less then racing a Spec Miata. The really GREAT thing about the CRX is that it seems on any given month you can buy a pretty well developed one for around $6k. A bargain! I've seen them in the back of GSM and SportsCar, the SCCA pub.

The CRX can be a farily fast car and with the right alignment and suspension will handle very well. Can even be set to be a little on the loose side. For me the biggest expense is tires and brakes.

My car has just under 190k miles on the engine and its NEVER BEEN OPENED!! You saw what it could do at RR on crummy worn out tires (BTW I have some great video of your car from that session).

Since I have a boat load of spares for the Honda I'd be hard pressed to move to something else but frankly I see no reason to want to move. It will fit in well during an SCCA or a NASA weekend, take little time to prepare between sessions and just be a hoot to drive. Next HPDE let me know if you want to try it!

Ron

Thanks for all of the opinions...keep them coming. I pretty much ruled out T2 as a viable option. Low class participation, more expensive for me to get into and the general lack of enthusiasm from some of the drivers I talked to.

SM is still an option. But I have been doing a little looking at ITA and ITB. I would like rear wheel drive. But the CRX/Civics are still pretty cool looking.

Probably looking at the 08 season though.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

ITA Miata? 1.6 or 1.8, both seem to be competitive. Take a SM, put some real shocks on it, a real exhaust, and some brake ducts and you are 95% of the way there.

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Bowie
President, Conover Motor Sports
http://www.raceconover.com

Jim,

What about Spec E30. It is inexpensive and RWD. Participation numbers are probably much lower than what you are looking for but it sounds like it is growing.

There's a lot of good things to be said about Spec E30. There are also a number of problems.

1. It's NASA only - no racing with SCCA
2. Not a lot of people running it, at least compared to something like ITA, let alone Spec Miata
3. It's a new class, so finding an already-built car for sale that isn't a chitbox is unlikely
4. It's NASA only (or, I suppose, BMWCCA, although hopelesly undercompetitive there)

One of the big problems with NASA that I see is that they've got a class for EVERYthing. So you might be racing in a grid of 40 cars, but since there's fifteen classes out there, you're only in competition with two of them. So you end up with the guy not even in your **series** let alone your class "racing" you and holding you up. I've done this. It happens.

Jim I still say stick with IT or SM. If you really want to know how I feel, email me and I'll lay down some dirty laundry. Not in public though.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

Having just gotten home from a NASA event at Summit Point, Spec E30 was pretty well subscribed this weekend. There looked to be at least 10 of them in their run group, and the racing was tight.

Another cheap and reasonably well-subscribed class is 944 Cup/Super Cup. With a 944 cup car, you're in ITS in SCCA, and SP1 in PCA. A good friend has one and the cars are pretty slow in a straight line, but brake and turn quite well. From what I'm reading around here, both classes have a good amount of interest and are growing pretty quickly.

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Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

hey Jim, rumor has it that BMWCCA is going to establish a E36 Spec Series. bulletproof, and reasonably inexpensive. maybe not to the extent of SM but affordable. and my car is already prepped. maybe overprepped actually. not that i am thinking of selling or anything.

Inexpensive spec. Is there really such a thing? Ask the guys driving wreck miatas that cost $30K.

But at least they're all on Toyos

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

"REASONABLY" nothing is really inexpensive. if it were everyone would be doing it.

The words Racing + Inexpensive should not be used in the same sentence...

So Jim why not get another Mister Two and run that on the track? I don't know what class it runs in but you know the car very well in both driving and fixing. That has some value too.

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http://www.greywinds.com

The trouble with the MR2 is the weight. You can not get it down to any thing near a competitive weight. Plus, I am not that excited about a mid-engine car on track. There is a big difference in it snap spinning at 50 mph and 100 mph

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner