Brake Fluid

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:15 am

clinehall wrote:

Where is Black Forest?

Quote:

It is not easy to localise the region of the Black Forest. In order to do this we have chosen the excellent map drawn up by Mr. Brennan giving a panoramic view of the Black Forest to present the region dealt with in blackforestinfo.com in a lively way. The geological structure becomes visible. The towns of Stuttgart, Strassbourg, Basel and Konstanz which of course are not in the Black Forest form a frame.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Stacy King wrote:

AP Racing and Motul 600 are also good ones... though not sure if either is available local.

I ran the Motul 600 in my 3800lb, Automatic 300zx for two seasons and didn't have any issues of any sort.

I'm running Motul RBF600 in the Z06. It works very well. After a track weekend I bleed some off, about 4oz or so. It sells for about $16/12oz if you pay list. Most of these brake fluids have a high markup. You can get it much cheaper if you can get it wholesale.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

clinehall wrote:

Where is Black Forest?

In Cary near the intersection of Chatham and NE Maynard, on the right just past the Circus fast food joint. Look for the Vanagon.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:38 pm

I did some checking, and the place I used to use doesn't carry the standard AP Racing stuff anymore. He carries AP PRF, which has a dry boiling point of 608 degrees F and wet of 311 degrees F.

It isn't cheap, but it is cheaper than Racer Wholesale:

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/bkfld.htm

I can get it for $26.60 a bottle, and less for bigger quantities more than likely.

I'll call around for some other shops for the lower cost stuff. - AB

clinehall · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 pm

Rich Anderson wrote:

clinehall wrote:

Where is Black Forest?

Quote:

It is not easy to localise the region of the Black Forest. In order to do this we have chosen the excellent map drawn up by Mr. Brennan giving a panoramic view of the Black Forest to present the region dealt with in blackforestinfo.com in a lively way. The geological structure becomes visible. The towns of Stuttgart, Strassbourg, Basel and Konstanz which of course are not in the Black Forest form a frame.

A million comedians out of work and your trying to break into the business.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:54 pm

Cline,

If you are looking a quick bleed. I opened a bottle (can) of the the Super Blue Sunday and have about 1/3 of it left. YOu are more than welcome to it.

Brad Mackey · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:03 pm

I've used Valvoline Synthetic for the past two years and have never experienced problems. Re-charge it completely (about a pint) for EVERY track event, don't change it for Autocrosses. I bleed the fronts a few strokes after each day's sessions.

The stuff is reasonable enough so that I don't even remember the price.

Of course, I'm braking down a 2,300-lb. car with pretty well-ventilated front rotors from maybe 110 mph. Heavier, faster cars would probably push the caliper heat values higher than I'm experiencing.

my $.02.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I'm surprised that you can't get brake fluid from Carbotech.

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:04 pm

I'm looking for a fluid to change over to. Ford HD boils at Rockingham (both times last year) - it holds up fine at VIR and Roebling. Diane said she ran Motul in her SM all year, with minimal, if any, maintenance.

robharvey · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:06 pm

I'm very pleased with the ATE 200.

Just like Brad, I bleed the system with new fresh fluid before every track event, but not for autox events.

I purchase it from BlackForest. It's only $10 for a liter container. That's not a lot to ensure you have brakes when you need them on track!

As for the Gold vs Blue, the Gold has a longer life. The container for the Gold states "Extra Long Replacement Interval", which agrees with what Adam (BlackForest) has stated.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:31 pm

robharvey wrote:

As for the Gold vs Blue, the Gold has a longer life. The container for the Gold states "Extra Long Replacement Interval", which agrees with what Adam (BlackForest) has stated.

Ok, first someone really stop me as it seems to be an obsession at this point. I can admit I have a problem. Still I am going to get up on my soap box at this point....

Ok, I have a can each of ATE Type 200 (Gold) and Super Racing (Blue) in front of me. Looking at the labels on both...

Gold

"Extra Long Replacement Intervals Environmentally Friendly"
"ABS tested"
"Boiling Point 280C (536F)"
"Wet Boiling Point 200C (392F)"
"This DOT 4 motor vehical brake fluid conforms to the US safety standard FMVSS blah blah"
"Change at least every 3 years"

Blue

"High-performance brake fluid"
"Boiling Point 280C (536F)"
"Wet Boiling Point 200C (392F)"
"Better than specifications of FMVSS blah blah"
"Change this brake fluid after approx 2 - 3 years (depending on on the vehical model and on its operating conditions blah blah"

So Gold does have a statement about "Long Replacement Intervals", but then Blue is a "High-performance brake fluid". Can I use Blue in high performance situations but use Gold longer? Gold is listed as "Environmentally Friendly" but Blue is not. Whats up with that? Gold has been "ABS tested" but Blue doesn't mention ABS. Will Blue work with ABS? Blue is better than specifications of FMVSS while Gold only meets the specifications? Is Blue better than Gold?

IMHO most of this stuff on the label is generic marketing. The wording is similar and probably could go onto either product. It is interesting however, that I never noticed that it has the dry/wet boiling points printed on both cans (and they are the same). What could ATE have done to make one "last longer" than the other? Isn't it moisture that works it way in that is the primary reason for replacement? Do we really think that one somehow keeps moisture out more than the other?

These are the same other than the color.

Back off my soap box.

Someone asked earlier about Blackforest. Adam's contact info is listed on the THSCC Sponsor page...

http://www.thscc.com/general/info/sponsors.html

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:34 pm

Oh, anyone find it weird that ATE Type 200 (Gold) is in a Blue can, but ATE Super Blue Racing is in a silver/gold can? :lol:

Someone stop me please.....

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Richard Casto wrote:

Oh, anyone find it weird that ATE Type 200 (Gold) is in a Blue can, but ATE Super Blue Racing is in a silver/gold can? :lol:

Someone stop me please.....

And you drive on parkways and park on driveways.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:50 am

My guess is that you are right that it is all marketing BS. Now if it is marketing, it does make me question why ATE would have one formulation and then go to the trouble of adding different dies, use different cans (not just labels) and all the other work that making what is a essentially a duplicate SKU entails. What purpose does that serve? Only guess is that the original fluid might have been an OE contract which stipulated exclusivity of use on road for a certain period of time, thus they created a 'racing' formula and to satisfy the contract, made it blue so it wouldn't be street legal. I seem to remember getting Blue a long time ago and then the 200 coming out at a later date, although that isn't a fact.

Either way, it is decent fluid and no one should have a problem with it.

Diane Hall · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:10 am

I have used Motul for years now in the Miata and wouldn't use anything else. The horrible post HPDE sponge pedal stopped with the use of the Motul, and I've never used anything else after that. No issues when club racing either.

No, I'm not saying other stuff isn't just as good, but I found this worked and wasn't willing to try something else and possibly be disappointed.

Oh, and on the Miata, I bleed the brakes about once a year. More because I think I should than it really needs it.

Diane

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