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 Post subject: Apology about hogging the tech shed...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:19 pm
Posts: 65
I want to apologize for hogging the left bay of the tech shed yesterday morning at the VIR event.

It was thoughtless of me to keep my car (the blue BMW E90 325i with temp tags on it) in there. It didn't really need to be in there except for the few moments when I was rainex-ing the windshield.

Once I realized my boorishness, I did move my car out behind the shed after the first instructor session, but I know a couple of folks wanted to use it in the meanwhile. Anyway sorry about that - it was rude and thoughtless and I apologize to anyone that needed to use it to change tires, rainex the windshield, etc.

:(

Mark

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
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Location: Raleigh
We will key your car at the next event......:)

Ron


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:55 am 
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In that case, I've got another confession to make - its not really my car! HP put me on the BMW account / sales team, so they took away the company Explorer (last couple years it was a mini-van), and gave me a little BMW 325i to drive. Something about BMW not liking vendors to show up in competitor vehicles. So its a company car!

Yeah, I know, I suck...

Its a little no-frills, no options (well maybe a few), automatic 325i. Would you believe its got vinyl seats - who would have thought BMW even made such a thing as "Leatherette"? Takes me back to the '80s.

Its slow off the line - the automatic 6 speed saps all the power - but once it gets going, it really is a blast to drive. It can't believe how well it handles, even on the entry level / lower-performance all-season run-flats. Unfortunately it doesn't have the upgraded "sport package", but it still handles like its on rails. I can only imagine how well the more powerful 330i with a sport package must drive, because the base model 325i is pretty terrific.

Does anyone out there have an E90 330i? If so I am truly envious and want to drive your car! That being said, I can't believe how much I really like driving the E90 325i. Even if its not mine.

Mark
(yeah, I know, I suck...) :user:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Raleigh
All the more reason to key it!
I think Penny VItacco has a 330. But I'm not sure if Mark even gets to drive it!

Hope to see you in April.

Ron


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:18 am 
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I err on the side of being stupid
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:15 pm
Posts: 4743
Location: Greenville, NC
Ron Spencer wrote:
All the more reason to key it!
I think Penny VItacco has a 330. But I'm not sure if Mark even gets to drive it!

Hope to see you in April.

Ron


Key it? Hell I think that warrants a step up to brake fluid on the paint!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:38 am 
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Posts: 65
At this point, I am planning to be there in April.

While we are on the subject of keying cars, do you guys remember the infamous Blue Corvette Student (Mr. "BC") during the Car Guys at VIR last october? Mr. BC is the guy that rear-ended somebody during the very first run group. So after the incident on Friday, his instructor refused to get back in the car with him (smart man), and Aryan asked me to take Mr. BC on, which I did as a personal "challenge." :banghead:

Mr. BC had this "tag-along" friend (who wasn't even driving), and between sessions they would just sit off by themselves and stew all weekend about how nobody else could drive but Mr. BC, and how there wasn't enough clean track, and the guy in front of him braked too soon, and he really should be in a faster run group, and... well, you get the picture.

On Sunday, while having one of many "talks" in my trailer, me and Mr. BC and his toady little friend (trivia - I call him that because he reminds me of the little bully sidekick in the "Christmas Story"), all got into a heated discussion on proper track "ettiquette". I kicked the toady little friend out of my trailer, and told him to just stay away - this didn't concern him and he was getting in the way.

Later that day I discover the tailgate on my truck is keyed... :( I'm pretty sure it wasn't Mr. BC - he was hard-headed but not that type, but I wouldn't have put it past his friend...

Mark

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:53 pm 
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Only YOU can prevent forest fires
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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:58 pm
Posts: 2204
Location: Apex
That really is a challenge...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Raleigh
The magic words...." your signed off" come to mind!

I've been very, very lucky. In all the years I did in car I rarely had a student who wanted to argue or had an attitude. In fact I can only think of one mild case which cleared itself up soon after they tried something I stongly suggested would not work (tried without telling me first) and we were just able to stay on track. No problems after that!

If I were still doing in car I'd have NO problem making them pit during their session and talk quite slowly about the problem as they watched the time on their session slowly disapear. Probably would get their attention.

Mark I'm betting that your guy never showed up for another HPDE. Maybe went racing because he was so good......but gave it up after all those reacers got in his way!


Ron


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:52 am 
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Unfortunately I couldn't sign this guy off. He was not safe to drive by himself - not just to himself, but to others on track. There is WAY more to this story.

I hesitated to tell about this, because some of the techniques I used could get me banned from instructing for life. This is NOT something I advocate, and if I did it over, I probably wouldn't do it the same way. But here's the story.

This guy had been to Skippy School, and according to him (and his toady), they said he was their best student of that weekend. So he wasn't going to take any guff from a Carguys instructor. He kept blaming his car-to-car accident the day before on the way the school was run (How could we put a Corvette out there in the same group with hondas and volkwagens?!), on his tire pressures, on the driver in front of him, etc.

As far as I was concerned, he had by far the worst attitude of any student I had ever met. He wasn't completely unskilled, but his learning "attitude" made him dangerous. So on the second day of school (this was a 3 day school), I was still struggling with him, trying to get him to listen. He was so hard headed, nothing would get through to him.

I constantly had to remind him of his entry speed going into turns. And he was king of the late brakers. That is a really bad combination in a modified C5 Corvette, so I really had to stay on top of him. So I put a speed limit on him down the straights. He would constantly complain that we were doing "parade laps", and that I was holding him back. So at one point I had enough of this, and there was clear track around us, so I shut my mouth as we were going down the front straight. He IMMEDIATELY overcooked it going into turn one (I couldn't have planned it better), and we went 4 wheels way-off, grass flying everywhere. Lots of dirt in the interior of his shiny, souped up vette. So we went back to the pits for a talk. I told him flat out, I let him hang himself by simply shutting my mouth.

We sat there talking for a little while then went back on track. I could tell immediately his attitude hadn't changed, so I did something even more controversial. This was quite possibly the dumbest or smartest (depending on your point of view) thing I ever did as an instructor. Once again, we had clear track around us, so I shut my mouth, this time on VIR's bridge straight.

We ENTERED the uphill esses at 125mph (that Vette was FAST!), which was a solid 20mph more than I knew he was capable. I leaned over as we were going in and calmly said "We're not going to make it". It was spectacular! We slid and spun all the way to the top of the hill, finally stopping about 20 feet short of the tire wall on the outside of turn 9.

He was really shaken up after that. He even parked himself for the entire 3rd session - didn't even go out - said he needed to go back to the hotel and get his head on straight.

I expected him to pack it in, but would you believe Mr. BC came back for the 3rd day. This guy is one of the mentally toughest SOB's I've ever met (he's from brooklyn), which is both good and bad. He gutted out the first session on Sunday with me, docile as could be. He transformed himself overnight. No more complaints about "parade laps", he watched his entry speed, etc. I barely had to say a word. He still wasn't "fast", but at least now he was safe.

After that session, we went back to the trailer for our now standard 1 hour (yes!) post session talk, and as I probed him about what he learned, his underlying attitude re-emerged. At that point, I had had enough, and that's when I threw his toadie friend out of the trailer. Mr. Vitacco graciously agreed to take Mr. BC as his student for the rest of the day (I was mentally worn out), and Vitacco said that Mr. BC was a model student for the final two sessions.

Mr. BC actually came by before he left for home, and said he learned alot and appreciated what we did for him. I hope he really learned something, but I'm not so sure - its hard for a tiger to change it's stripes...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
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Location: Raleigh
Hey, as long as you were safe and the track was clear I think letting him take the car off (and not hit anything) was what it took. Amazing how sliding within 20' of a tire wall or something hard can change your attitude.

Mark, you have MUCH more patience then I do. I'm not sure I would have hung in there quite so long. I think I would have talked with the student basically saying we have a personality mismatch: I want to live and you don't!!

Would have then gone to Aryan, explained the situation and suggested either a new instuctor or refund his money and send him packing. Just no place in a school for this kind of attitude.

My congratulations for hanging in as long as you did!

Ron


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:06 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Shelby NC
Quote:
I leaned over as we were going in and calmly said "We're not going to make it"


That's f-ing awesome Mark!!! The Babe calling his shot....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Raleigh
Come on now. Mark has been trying to (and has) loose weight. No reason to call him the Babe!!

To anticipate the response Matt, you're explaining to me because???

R


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:19 pm
Posts: 65
Matt Nicholson wrote:
Quote:
I leaned over as we were going in and calmly said "We're not going to make it"


That's f-ing awesome Mark!!! The Babe calling his shot....


Well, I'd like to say I was that good, but the reality was that there was NO WAY IN HECK we were going to make it at that speed, and it would have been obvious to anyone sitting in the right seat.

Mostly, I was just being a smartass.

It was just amazing to me how mystified Mr. BC was about the whole situation. He kept asking me later, wanting to know what he could have done to save the car, and my response was "Repeal the laws of physics."

I kept telling him before this happened, accept the "leash" or I'll give you a rope (to hang yourself). On the third day he finally realized his limitations and he WANTED the leash.

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Last edited by markodell on Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:49 am 
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Ron Spencer wrote:
Would have then gone to Aryan, explained the situation and suggested either a new instuctor or refund his money and send him packing. Just no place in a school for this kind of attitude.

My congratulations for hanging in as long as you did!

Ron


Aryan and I had made a deal. After Mr. BC's incident on Friday in the first session, Aryan asked me to take him on, and I said I would, if he was my only student. So it was really kind of a personal challenge to break this guy and make him learn something - kind of like breaking in a wild horse.

I spent way more time tutoring him off track than we spent on track. My biggest concern is that after he left, he goes back to his old ways. But you do what you can...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:07 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Raleigh
What he should have done to save the car was listen to you earlier. But repealing the laws of physics is always a good fall back plan!

Good that we don't often have this kind of, ah, challenge!

R


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