auto insurance & HPDE

clinehall · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:52 pm

Kevin Butler wrote:

State Farm has paid off on HPDE claims in the past. I'm not sure what their current policy is.

We have an independant insurance salesman that is a Tarheel member. He has autox'd and HPDE'd with us. I would be curious to see what insight he may be able to provide.

SHH! I try to keep this a secret. Autocross and HPDE are pretty much under the radar screen for most companies. IN my 22 years in the insurance industry I have only seen one reference to either one, that was in a class and when I asked specifics the instructor said she would get back to me, that was a year ago.

Here is what little I have been able to ascertain, I am also very scared of screwing the pooch by asking the wrong people about this. I am very well respected in my industry and that might go down the drain if they find out what I am really like!! The nc policy is standard with all companies, there is no limitation due to autocrossing, hpde or even racing. Certainly the companies would not want to insure anyone who does any of those but they don't ask either. If you have an accident at one of those events I think they will have to pay and you can expect your cancellation very soon after that.

You might be asked for your insurance information for liability reasons. If you run me over in the pits, who is responsible? In normal life if you run me over at Food Lion, I sue you not Food Lion. I would think this would be the same at VIR. Now as far as what happens on the track, I don't know. Maybe Stacy or some of the big wigs know. I know at SCCA autocrosses they always say we have a 5million dollar policy on this event. I really don't know what that means, I would think that if I run off the course and kill you my auto insurance would be used first and then the scca's would come into effect.

I do know this, Umbrella policies (which give coverage above your home and auto) are underwritten in regards to motorsports and usually exclude any coverage.

To answer the origainall question. If I ever get a track car, instead of running my insurance agencies company cars, I will get a liability only polilcy to cover it even if it is not tagged. You do not have to have it registered to get insurance. Then there is some protection if I kill somebody.

If that is not enough insight, call that friggin lizard at midnight tonight and see what he knows!!

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:54 pm

I race with my insurance agent..... scary :shock:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:47 pm

thanks for the insight Cline. i probably need to get the car off my commercial policy and set up an inexpensive liability coverage.

of course then could i still claim deductions for stress relief and mental health benefits gained thru bonzai weekend activities? :lol:

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:42 pm

clinehall wrote:

The nc policy is standard with all companies, there is no limitation due to autocrossing, hpde or even racing. Certainly the companies would not want to insure anyone who does any of those but they don't ask either. If you have an accident at one of those events I think they will have to pay and you can expect your cancellation very soon after that.

A guy I know, who shall remain nameless, totaled his car at an HPDE recently. He contacted an agent (not his particular agent but one in a nearby city) that sold the same name of insurance to find out what the policy was in such a situation. They didn't know off hand, but called him back later that day and the answer was "we don't cover that". That doesn't sound like what Cline stated above. That being said...he opted to just let it go since his car wasn't worth what he would have to pay between the deductible and his insurance increase over the next 3 years.

clinehall · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:40 pm

"That Guy" might have done the right thing. He, would probably come out better financially to eat the loss.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:08 am

clinehall wrote:

I do know this, Umbrella policies (which give coverage above your home and auto) are underwritten in regards to motorsports and usually exclude any coverage.

Isn't that with regard to participating in a motorsport event (i.e. a "race" as in a race car in a race)? In other words, I would think that if your auto policy is covering liability for the incident at an HPDE they would have a hard time claiming that a different circumstance now applies for the umbrella coverage. However, I've not read the fine print of course (yet).

Time to dig it out.

Interesting info about the NC insurance policies btw...I guess it is required that all companies write policies in the same fashion here in NC?

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:51 pm

NC is a "bureau" state meaning we have an insurance commissioner which over sees everything. Basically all policies verbage is the same from one company to the the next unless there is an exception that is approved by the insurance commissioners.

On the umbrella thing, while I have never seen a claim, I think the companies would hang their denials on the fact that they ask if you contemplate using your vehicle in a contest, race, or exhibition. If you say yes they won't insure you, if you say no and you run over somebody at an autocross they could deny the coverage based on misrepresentation of a policy. IMHO it would be hard for them to deny an accident at a HPDE but they could a time trial. I don't think there has been in actuall case law on this which is how things are ultimatley setteled, I just hope I am never involved in finding this stuff out!!!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:05 pm

clinehall wrote:

NC is a "bureau" state meaning we have an insurance commissioner which over sees everything.

And he sends me a refund check about every other year.

I like the insurance commissioner.

David Teague · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:57 pm

From talking with a few insurance agents I know that race/hpde some are from outside nc, thier feeling is that you would have better luck geting a HPDE Covered and not dropped after the fact since it is a driving school, than say a claim at an auto-x/time trail, any time a clock is involved you are not learning, you are racing. One Driver put a claim into USAA for an accident at an auto-x event and was promptly dropped after the fact, I belive the stated reason was running car in Timed event as the reason.

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:28 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

clinehall wrote:

NC is a "bureau" state meaning we have an insurance commissioner which over sees everything.

And he sends me a refund check about every other year.

I like the insurance commissioner.

That only means you were overcharged in the first place! My clients are always mad that they don't get a very big check because we didn't overcharge them (Yes, I know shameless plug)

Mark Vitacco · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:16 am

Ted Wilder has been doing Track Events with us the past two years.
He is an insurance agent (I forget which company-possibly State Farm).
He is driving a RED Z06. His number will be listed on the drivers roster.

The other company that specilized in HPDE vehicle coverage is listed
in the FAQ for TRACK.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

One thing we didn't cover on this insurance topic. Let's use the case of that nameless person Stephen was talking about.

So that nameless person didn't file the vehicle damages with his/her insurance. Probably a wise move.

But what about Medical??? If the nameless person or passenger required Medical attention. Do you file that on your personal or auto insurance? I'd more concerned about medical bills and their costs than sheet metal on a car if it was a hard impact.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:06 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

But what about Medical??? If the nameless person or passenger required Medical attention. Do you file that on your personal or auto insurance? I'd more concerned about medical bills and their costs than sheet metal on a car if it was a hard impact.

Well, I would imagine that since one could easily claim that the vehicle was not on a public highway and therefore not covered by the vehicle's insurance, then ones medical insurance, barring a racing exclusion (AFLAC!) would have to cover it. Should there be any questions from such a claim, one could simply tell the medical insurance company that denial of coverage would be unfair as injuries sustained during skiing, sports or other recreational activities would be covered. :wink:

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:36 pm

It wasn't anything major, just some x-rays and pain killers, but my friend's medical planned covered it for him. He told the Dr. he was in an auto accident. They asked him when he showed up if any other insurance besides his health insurance would be covering it, he said no. They filed it with his health coverage provider. The Dr. also asked him during the examination about the nature of the accident, so they knew exactly what the circumstances were.

clinehall · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:58 pm

Here is a Question for the Track guys, what does the policy that they purchase cover. Scca always says something in their brochures about the best insurance coverage. If I run you over in the pits I would think the track school would have some liabililty,

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