THSCC Forums

Might be too late here, but I'm over six feet tall and am driving a first gen Miata with a HDHCSD and 6 point harnesses.

I have OEM seats on both sides with about 2" of foam removed from the bottom part of the drivers seat. I drive with the seat some what reclined but I pass the broomstick test and feel very secure in the car. Car passes tech inspection without issue. At least it did last year.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Taking this slightly off topic, where does this expectation end? If I get a HANS device, do I need to provide one for the instructor? If I get it custom fitted, do I have to pay for every instructor to get the same thing?

I am very close to investing in one of these things "just in case." If I truly decide I won't track anymore without a Hans device, requiring me to buy one for an instructor would just mean I'd never run with an instructor again.

While I agree with the philosophy of the rule, where does it end? If I wear an open faced helmet, should I not be allowed on track because my instructor has a closed face helmet (thus un-equal restraint). If it's the other way around, does that mean I'm out of luck for the weekend?

Think about the risk an instructor takes by getting into a '73 Celica or Z-car relative to getting into a '98 M3. I know I don't need to spend many CPU cycles to figure out which car I'd rather hit a wall in. Do instructors ever choose not to instruct because of that?

Scott

Personal safety equipment != equipment bolted/strapped to the car.

A HANS/Hutchens device isn't attached to the car, but solely to a collar that the person wears. It is reasonable to me that this is somewhat similar to an instructor or driver wearing a karting collar. Or an open faced helmet vs a closed face one. Or nomex drawers for that matter.

Another question is a natural progression of Scott's concerns: what if the car only has a drivers' side airbag?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

David, thanks for your input.
Now I guess I will look for a set of seats to chop up.
I am not going to cut up my 2004 seats.

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2004 Miata VR, MSM, HDHC, CCS-100 Cruise, 2448 of 4000

That is my assessment as well. And Wes, for me, if I'm in a car with harnesses in it already, I prefer to not have the airbag.



I don't know of anyone who's actually done it, but it is something many of us are mindful of.

BTW Chuck - it was not my intention to offend you.

(BTW Scott, if you're considering a head and neck restraint, give the Isaac a look. I'm wearing one in Scott's ITC car. It actually allows some head movement in the paddock, and once underway, you forget all about it).

Scott

Did you thought about the risk you where encountering when got into my 73 Porsche on the Patriot course as passenger???????

Clearly not well enough, had I considered the risks, I would have taken dramamine first

Obviously I've deemed driving old cars an acceptable risk. That said, we've been talking about retiring te old Celica for that very reason. The new one is paid for, and might become a 3rd/4th car soon enough, so why not make it the new and improved "safer" track car.

Scott

In general, assuming good maintenance, etc. would an older car with a cage, racing seat, fire system, etc. be safer than a newer car with just oem safety stuff?

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Dick, to me the answer depends on the relative speed. Assuming both are fairly equal, you still have to take into account just how fast you're gonna be going in each. To me up to about 100MPH you're probably safer in the new car because it's designed to crash safely to a point. It's gonna crumple "well" and it's gonna deploy airbags and all that. Your old car is just gonna by-dammit-stop when it hits the immovable object, and you're gonna get some force transferred to your well-strapped-in body. I'd say you're gonna get less injured in the new car.

For crashes above 100MPH, well, gotta say the prepared race car is going to help you more. If you hit the immovable object solidly, well, you're probably screwed in either case. But if you glance at all, the prepared car and equipment will bale you out better. Glance in the new car at high speed and the airbag helps you for the first impact only. The next few beat the snot out of you.

Probably could be debated till the cows come home, though.


--Donnie

Depends on how you plan to crash it.

And what kind of car it is.

There's a reason I picked a nice boxy relatively heavy old German sedan over a Miata for a track car

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

No problem. These sorts of things are tough nail down on both sides given all the different variables in vehicles and drivers.

Can't remember who said it, but talking to the people that do the inspections is a great idea. Or just do the broomstick test and get a sense as to how far from passing you are.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Update:
I visited with Marvin McBride today and looked at his spec car, as well as mine. If I slide forward enough to tilt the stock seat back far enough, I do pass the broomstick, with helmet on. Not my preferred seating but whatever it takes, I will do.

It seems I still have to return my new Simpson belts to make them comply with the separate mounting point rule. I have emailed Chris Schimmel about welding additional mounting tabs to our rollbars for this.
As the Technical Director, I hope he will be able to say what is good, bad, and ugly.

My car is a 2004 Miata MSM with a Hard Dog Hard Core with single diag.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/694583/7

My sons car (he is 35) is a 2002 Miata SE with a Hard Dog Double Duece with center diags on the hoops.
http://miata.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=343879&page=1

Both cars have harness mounting tabs, but I need ANOTHER mounting tab added to each side on each car in order to comply with the rule of having separate mounting points for the harnesses.

I also have eyebolts through the floor for sub-belts. If this is not okay, we need to discuss the possibility of welding tabs under the seats also.


I want to thank everyone for their input. I do want to make the cars safe for everyone. I have a son vested in this so my intent was never to bypass the rules, just to understand them.

Thanks,
Chuck

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2004 Miata VR, MSM, HDHC, CCS-100 Cruise, 2448 of 4000

Chuck, I like this bar, and looked at it before I put the HDHCDD bar in my 2000 Miata. But, at the time (last spring) it didn't look like this bar was to be SCCA Solo1 legal, or at least there had been no official word on it at that time. Has this changed? If not, it may be something to get an official word on to make sure you don't run into any surprises at tech.

Good luck!

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Dustin, who knows if any of the Hard Dog bars are REALLY Solo legal anymore. It is a rollbar, it does have diag supports for each hoop, so it should be okay for HPDEs as long as it passes the broomstick. At least from what I have been told and what I have read in the rulebook. I do not plan on him doing any points racing. Just HPDEs and AutoX.

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2004 Miata VR, MSM, HDHC, CCS-100 Cruise, 2448 of 4000

I know the founder of Hard Dog. He did not look at a SCCA rulebook when he designed his rollbars. In fact he was grumping to my dad 10 years ago that SCCA should inform him of rule changes. He designs his bars so that they will clear factory tops since he does not know what seat height or how tall the occupants are.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.