THSCC Forums

Sorry to bring a thread from the distant past back, and mods please feel free to split this off into its own thread if you prefer.

I'm considering running the GT Live Patriot course event on the weekend of October 3:

http://www.gtlivetour.com/events/att/tls/index.html

Reading this thread I don't think this is such a good idea. I've autocrossed and rallycrossed for a long time (though painfully little as of late) but have never done any kind of actual track event. My car is passably prepped for STX autocross but has NO track safety equipment or brake upgrades beyond Hawk HPS pads. Between the lack of safety/brake bits on my car, I'm concerned about the lack of safety awareness of the GT Live organizers. Finally, the lapping day folks would be alternating sessions with the drifters and they apparently put TONS of crap down on the track leaving some super slick sections from reports of last year.

With all of this said I'm still tempted to sign up. Tareheelers, what do you think?

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

October 11 & 12 CMP Tarheel/TriangleZ club HPDE, get some REAL instruction and track time with one of the best programs in the sotheast. Why is there even a question, folks from all sorts of diverse clubs have praised our program both on this forum and on others. Yet some of our own members look elsewhere to start tracking their cars, I don't understand.

The CircuitX is fun. I've done a few of them. I'm not sure exactly what they're going to do this year (instead of a CircuitX), but from what I've heard that they're going to do, I wouldn't waste my time on it.

I glazed some HPS pads pretty bad on my 07 WRX when I did a CircuitX, so I'd not use them again, even for a one-lap-at-a-time deal like that. For "open track" sessions, or whatever it is they're doing this time, I'd use HP+ -- but knowing what kind of people sign up for the CircuitXes, the 20-min sessions will be like parade laps, but with a few crazy assholes thrown in who will try to run you off the road (either intentionally or cluelessly).

I'd watch from trackside this time; if it looks okay & the experienced/ knowledgeable people have fun, I'd try it next time. Or just wait for the CircuitX or two that they plan for next year.

Point made.

I was thinking of the GT Live thing for two reasons:
--It's VIR
--It's VIR

With my worries over yahoos and the lack of instruction at GT Live I will see if I can make the THSCC event instead.

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

Do CMP in October, VIR in Feb.

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Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com

I can think of two reasons to go to GT Live and those aren't it.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

VIR is great, but it is not the end all be all, especially the patriot course. CMP is a fun track that I enjoy going to. Put that together with THSCC and you will have a far better time, learn more in a safer environment. The kink at CMP has a high of a pucker factor than any turn at VIR.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Plus the new configuration of CMP is a heck of a lot of fun.

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Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com

Kevin, I did VIR-F for my first event, CMP for my second. My take was VIR-F seemed a bit more intense, but CMP is probably a better first-event track. I'd do either one in a heartbeat over another club's event, especially if that other club is running on Patriot.

Oh, and I'd be back at CMP in a couple weeks too if my car was up to it (maybe just babysitting this time while Malia drives) - so my comment on CMP being a bit more beginner friendly shouldn't be taken to imply it's not still a blast.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Now that iRacing has VIR Patriot course, there's no need to do it for real

The Patriot course is an afterthought at VIR, and it drives like it too. The only thing it's got going for it is the elevation changes, but you never really reach a speed that gives you the full effect... especially in a circuit or autocross format where you don't even drive a whole lap of the track.

Put simply: If it's a track event you want, come down to CMP with us; if it's an autocross with elevation changes you want, then do the Patriot event.

(Obviously, I'm biased)

Green group (beginner) is currently waitlisted, but thats only because I'm waiting for a few more instructors to sign up. Go ahead and get on the list, I'm sure I can squeeze you in!

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I think the Patriot course is pretty fun to drive, especially with a WRX. But I'm no track snob, either. Plus, I drive a Subaru. So I'm sure I'm just wrong.

I don't see how anyone could say the only thing it has going for it is the elevation change, though. And I reached speeds in my slow little 2.5RS that gave me "the full effect" -- meaning tires getting off the ground -- maybe you're just driving too easy?



Mr. Hoff, you should definitely do the CircuitX at some point. It's pretty fun. I'd skip the event at GT Live, though.

I agree on Patriot being a lot of fun. The issues I see many have with it seem to be due to how actually challenging it is to drive well. One part most drivers seem to hate is the section just after the bitch south course entry to the north course section since it is very tight and off camber, etc, -- hence many over drive that section and hang themselves out to dry and get ticked off with it. Similarly, people who have run Grand West layout which takes you though that section going the other direction seem to have similar complaints.

The combination of elevation and camber changes on Patriot make for a technically very challenging course requiring some serious study and rehearsal (at least for me) to drive well. I wonder how many people who dislike Patriot course have actually walked the track, made notes, rehearsed it, driven, revised their notes, etc.

Of course I love South course too just for the above reason along with the repetition factor, and I know I'm part of minority opinion there too.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

OK, maybe I was a little harsh on the patriot course... truth is I've only driven it once during our event. But damn, over the course of two days we all must have logged hundreds of laps on that thing... not to mention the most bent sheet metal of any event we've run before or since. The risks far outweigh the rewards in my opinion.

Not sure what the track snob comment was about... I hope it wasn't directed at me, if it was, you don't know me very well (which you don't actually.) Then again, if you mean track vs. autocross, then ok, maybe I'm guilty of that.

Yeah, Patriot is a challenge, and even more so in the '71 240Z Torque-less wonder that I drove on it without the benefits of a nimble chassis, horsepower, and all-wheel drive.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

Wow! That was just too easy! Thanks!

Kevin Hoff - I would not recommend Patriot Course for your first track event. If Bernie and Marty and all say CMP is a good course to learn on (I've never been there), then you should take their advice. Just take along plenty of bottled water when you go south of the border.

That said, I liked the Patriot Course. Granted, I probably never broke 90 mph anywhere on the course, but I seemed to catch on quickly to the twisties between Bitch and the North Course cross-over. (I drive a Fox-body Mustang. I live for the twisty bits.) The key for me was to throw out the anchor early on the approach to the first of those turns, then late apex the heck out of each successive turn so I exited neatly on the North Course cross-over instead of into the Jersey barrier.

The esses between the North Course crossover and the South Course Fish Hook turn were fun if you actually drove on the pavement. One instructor told me they were more fun if you just rallycrossed straight across them, but I was able to drive my car home afterwards by following the "asphalt is good" approach.

These two sections were also the places where all of the wrecks occured.

I was also a bit concerned about track-out at the top of the Spiral. There's a concrete and steel storm drain off driver's left that could cause a lot of damage.

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Art McDonald
Premier Amateur #518
2008 Dishman Cup
Pivot Cone Snob

Rodney is a waxer (but in a good way)

Kevin must have been having a bad day!

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.