How prevalent is this type of behavior?

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Having done only THSCC/TZC track events, I can't imagine being turned loose on a track with this bunch of idiots...

http://www.minircdude.com/videos/Sears_ ... 242004.wmv

And the guy who posted it said this was a normal track day for them. So is this "normal" at a lot of places, or does almost everyone else run things like we do? (you know, passing signals, not blowing by two cars at once - in a turn, etc.)

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:21 am

That sort of thing pops up from the west coast from time to time. Their idea of a track event over there is somewhat different than ours - much less controlled and much more disorderly.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:09 pm

Holy @#$%!!! That is insanity. How in the world do the tracks manage to keep their insurance with stuff like that happening?

I'm sure glad that almost all of the events out here are run in a controlled manner. There is some scary lack of judgement being displayed on that video.

--Kevin H.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:19 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

That sort of thing pops up from the west coast from time to time. Their idea of a track event over there is somewhat different than ours - much less controlled and much more disorderly.

You mean our track events don't have people going two and three wide into each turn? :shock:

I have been watching all of these 'on track' highlight videos and figured that is what all of the fun is about.

Mark Vitacco · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:41 pm

I'm admit this is a generalazation but my obversation is West
Coast Track events are much more "unrestrained" than East Coast.

I've seen similar video and read reports on various forums that have
too made me cringe, like running events with out a ambluance on site
for example. ( high speed track events not autocross)

There are all different car cultures out there. I try
to be open minded but personally, everytime another east coast
"national wantabe organization" does events in this area I get concerned.
There are some people who thrive on Kayos and think events run like
ours are full of B.S. I would care less had it not be the fact that when
this leads to someone getting hurt of killed the first response is usually
to get the government involved.

We choise to follow the examples set by not for profit
Marque Clubs and organizations such as CarGuys Inc. in defining our driver & instructor protocol. All you can do is vote with entry forms
and entry fee's as to which you prefer. Usually after reading a groups
web you can sus out what their mindset is after a few minuies and
make an informed decision. There is no shortage of forums and
newgroups, this one included, that contain feedback about various
events and how they are run for better or worse (as far as accuracy
is concerned).

It is argued if the protocall makes any difference. Comman sence
would indicate it does but the fact is We wad up cars. I can remember
a time when we lost a car at every CarGuy event for almost an
entire season. BMWCCA used to have a reputation for writting off
cars,thankfully that is no longer true but SY&$ still happens.
Every time some leaves the track there is chance of
contact, injury or worse. In my opinion, probably biased, is that
an in-car instructor makes the most difference but I have no data
to actually prove or disprove this.

My opinion is when you get tired of the HPDE thing and want to
do wheel to wheel go club racing.
Two mid west states proposed legislature to set standards and licensing
requirements for organizations running track events. Both proposals
were not implemented. These actions followed highly publized fatalities
that occured at a track event. (not around here).

The insurance waiver , by defination, gives organizations
a lot of lattitude.
I can state with high confidance that you will find
vast difference with risk and preceived risk at various organizations,
and vast differences in policy and protocol. A case can be made for
some sort of standaradazation and licancing for organizers.

My opinion is some groups will eventually
hang themselves on this latitude
and my concern is at what cost it will be and to whom?

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:11 pm

My votes are going with Tarheel.

I have no desire to have uncontrolled passing and race-level tailgating at an educational/street car event. I'm sure glad most of the groups putting on driving events in this area have a fairly tight operation.

--Kevin H.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:45 pm

For those of us with dial up connections, can someone give us a description of the video please?

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

"Racing" 3 wide, tailgating and passing on the outside not allowing natural track-out at Sears Point/Sonoma (the road course that NASCAR just ran).

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:05 pm

Can I safely assume that these guys would not be allowed at a THSCC/TZC event. I'm glad that we don't run that kind of an event. That is just a major crash and possible helicopter ride looking for a place to happen. Not good.

Thanks Wes.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Wes, you forgot to mention the part where the Porsche spins in front of a large group of cars, and nobody slows down - especially the guy in the EVO. :shock:

Mark Vitacco · **Posted:** Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:05 pm

Todd;

You assume correctly. The HPDE driving rules and procedures are
posted in the douments section and included in the info packs you
get when you sign in. All Green and Yellow group students should
also get them in the info pack mailed at -2 weeks.

Ron does a through safety briefing before anyone goes on track
both days. Stacy and I, or some one we delegate monitors the
track control net . IF there is something we don't like about a driver
we black flag them but the track control person usually black flags
cars first. We use professional corner workers at all our events. They
are either VIR employies, SCCA Regional & National certified, or both.
These guys and gals are pretty sharp and there is very little you can
get away with.

In addition to corner workers we police ourselves. I always encorage
anyone to come in the pits any time they see something that makes
them unconfortable. Everyone is responsible for event saftey and
we have established a very good culture within the club than takes
this seriously. I believe we do a decent job of doing what we say
we will do, enforcing the policy and try to be fair and consistant.

Which is not to say we don't have fun and will enjoy
a good dice but it's not at all like what you see in that video.

What this does is train you to be confortable in traffic. Given
enough seat time it does make the step to wheel to wheel less
difficlut should one feel the need to go club racing.

In the end I think we are fortuniate for all the good organizations we
have on the east coast and I'm proud to say that our club is among
them now that we have both a track , autocross, and rally programs.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:18 am

I've done a couple of HPDEs with Tarheel and can say that they are extremely well organized and safe. I have absolutely no worries about taking my daily driver out to our schoold. I have no fear that someone will plow into my car unless I do something stupid first.

You guys run an excelent show Mark.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Looks like me playing a racing video game. (Better, actually, but I think you get my point.)

Fortunately, one of the STis was driven by a "Professional Driver". So it's all gonna be OK.

Finally -- Mark -- good grief --- there's K-Os', and there's Kaopectate, but the word that describes the mess in that video is "chaos". Here's a visual reminder:

Patrick Wellenius · **Posted:** Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:16 pm

Did anyone else catch that Volvo wagon out there?? I know I'm on painkillers and all, but I'm not crazy yet :twisted:

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:46 pm

What fun....as long as your will is made out and you don't have a great attachement to the presnet shape of your car!!

I really liked that no one seemed to have roll bars....not even the convertibles. What the heck, if you are going to go crazy go ALL the way.

Ron

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