THSCC Forums

Yep, sounds like the gearing is your problem. I would have thought that 4th would have been at least 1:1, but in your case it's not. Maybe you get great gas mileage on track as a positive?

I toyed with the idea of switching from 3.55s to 3.73s in my Mustang, but I found that running 255/40/17s in effect did just that. Besides I'm right at redline on the front straight in 4th.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

The shocks failed in the first couple of sessions, resulting in shaking under hard braking (T1 and T7 brake zones) and the front pads were getting thin, so we were keeping an eye on them (had new pads and rotors on the bus, just preferred to save them for a race). The pads ended up lasting all weekend, although we won't get another day out of them. Ricky also didn't mention that the tires had multiple races on them and while they still had some rubber, were pretty lousy by that point in their life. We rotated them to keep the best rubber on the left for day 2, but no cords were showing at the end of the weekend. We had a good set of rain tires on the trailer in case the ones on the car didn't make it all weekend, but again, save the good stuff for a race.

I don't see where any of that qualifies the car as "broken". The first time that Ricky was affected by the shaking he drove straight off through T1 and afterward moved his brake point back. I talked to his instructor, who said Ricky could have made the turn, but chose to drive straight off under control just to be safe. I moved my brake point back by half a marker just to be safe and the tires being shot was just a bonus, as I believe that you run the worst tires to learn on because they punish you for your mistakes and save the good rubber for racing.

Can you tell me how any of that adversely affected your experience at the track (or anyone else's)? I'll be happy to apologize if the condition of the car was a detriment to anyone, but I can't see where it was. My driving, on the other hand, I probably should apologize for, but that has nothing to do with the car.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

That's correct.

Also not helpful ( I forgot to mention) it's limited to 120 before the ECU starts cutting the fuel pump - It appears there is a hack for this, but you loose the speedo too. I'm working on this.

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09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike

Dear Roger,

Please apologize for locking up a rear tire in T3 and covering my car in white smoke.

Best regards,
Andrew

I saw 4.39 for the 2006 Ford Fusion 5 speed manual (2.3L MZR though), but that .73 is the real killer. Socal PTE Miata guys run the stock 5-speed and put a 4.77 R&P in the rear since they're already taking 2 points for an LSD, but the 5th gear ratio is .814.

Man, that's really, really rough.

I had my shift light come on prior to braking in turn 1 if I wasn't slowed by another car. With the 205's I was running and the 3.73 rear end with the shift light coming on at 6600 rpm in 4th, I was doing a calculated 121.45 mph when I started braking and riding the limiter in 3rd into turn 14 nets me 92.00 mph. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Again with the old Z-24 I've BTDT. On the Z-24 it's ECU limited to 108 and it too cuts the fuel pump. Actually it's pretty abrupt and it sucks on a race track. With the right tech tools I think it can be removed but the work-around is to put an in-line toggle switch on the VSS wire coming from the transmission. This is what I did on my car and it works because the ECU doesn't know how fast the car is going. The only downside is the speedo doesn't work, but if you are watching the speedo on track let me know and I'll be sure to stay in the paddock while you're out there.

The speedo on our Lemons Prelude doesn't work any longer and people often ask "How do you know how fast you are going"? My response..."As damn fast as it will go!".

_________________
Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Yeah, Andrew, I did turn up the rear brake bias a bit too much there, my apologies. Did you notice if it was still doing it after I backed it off? I wasn't flat-spotting the rears, so I guess it wasn't too bad, but the tires were so noisy that I couldn't hear when the rears were locking up.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Nah, not that I could see. It was only that one time into T3 which is probably the one spot where it would happen (maybe T16 if you take the "I hope this works" line). Miatas lock up rears at autocross while dodging cones, but as long as the rears weren't locking before the fronts into T1/T7, you should be fine.

Well, here's what I'm running into. The 6 doesn't use a VSS - infact the A65M-R tranny has a dummy plug where the VSS would normally go. Vehicle speed is provided by the ABS system. That system controls the ABS, TCS, EBD. If I pull the fuse, it kills the speedo (and I assume the limiter) but the rear brakes lock up and the rearend comes around (very scary). If I unplug the front sensors, the front gets all the brake force and the rear does almost nothing. I've considered ripping out the ABS and just hard piping the brakes with a proportioning valve, but that seems extreme and I really like my ABS/EBD.

The speeds I'm quoting are from my telemetry - after the fact (I never look at the speedo on track). I think I'm actually hitting the limiter below 120 because the ECU thinks I'm on OEM 26.5" dia tires. This would make sense if I'm topping out at 112 or so according to the telemetry - the speedo is probably reading close to 120.

I guess I'll be ok at CMP and the Patriot course.

_________________
09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike

Did anyone happen to pick up a yellow and black plastic tool box from the paddock Sunday. I thought I threw it in my car but my guess is I left it where we replaced the upper coolant hose Sunday afternoon.

Tool box found!

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Cash. What about finding the wire that the VSS(s) send to the ECU on? Your ABS is likely just an off the shelf unit with its own controller. You should be able to break the link between the ECU and the speed sensors while keeping the ABS computer happy.

"Broken" may be a bit too strong for the situation. It's a Lemons car; as I'm famous for saying, "It'll be alright; It does that." (usually in response to it's love to smoke.) I was warned the shocks were gone, but wasn't prepared for just how much it was going to shake. I'd forgotten how that felt -- how many years was that thing raced with blown Koni's?

At no point in the weekend did anyone come up to me with even a single negative word about the Duff car or my skills at driving it. I had no spins or uncontrolled offs. (one totally controlled off -- if half the group wasn't a few seconds behind me, I might've kept going.) I wasn't licking dirt onto the track. Parts of the car weren't being dropped on the track. And it wasn't hosing down anything with it's various fluids. Yes, it's a slow car that'll hold people up in places where I'm not allowed (in yellow group) to let them by.

I don't think it is that simple. The 6 uses CAN-Bus Protocol.

From Wiki:

"CAN bus (controller area network) is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle without a host computer. CAN bus is a message-based protocol, designed specifically for automotive applications. CAN is a multi-master broadcast serial bus standard for connecting ECUs.

Each node is able to send and receive messages, but not simultaneously. A message consists primarily of an ID (identifier), which represents the priority of the message, and up to eight data bytes. It is transmitted serially onto the bus. This signal pattern is encoded in non-return-to-zero (NRZ) and is sensed by all nodes.

The devices that are connected by a CAN network are typically sensors, actuators, and other control devices. These devices are not connected directly to the bus, but through a host processor and a CAN controller."

As I understand it, the advantage is that sensors and devices can be connected to ANY controller that is convenient. So an ABS sensor could be connected to a tranny controller and then its data is transmitted to the ABS and PCM over the serial bus. The solution to the speed limiter on other CAN-bus cars has always been software. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of tuners focused on the 6.

Damn technology!

_________________
09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike

And maybe tied to the anti-theft "immobilizer" (if it has one.) In my '01 bug, if you disconnect the ABS without telling the ECU it's not there, the car won't work. (the immobilizer it tied into almost everything. in later models, even the automatic window controllers!)

Knock every other tooth off the wheel speed sensors? The ABS will still work, but it'll always see the car moving half as fast as it really is.