2014-2016 Chump rules are out

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

I can't speak for Team Simon, but I think they went for the Japanese version of "There's no replacement for displacement".

I'm cool with frankenmotors in Chump/Lemons, but people trying to pass a B16 as stock or are severely undervaluing the market price, the bullshit alarm should go off.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Roger McDaniels wrote:

Ah, I was thinking single-cam. A stock CRX comes with a D16A6, and you can bolt a $50-$100 single cam VTEC (D16Z6 or D16Y8) head to it for a nice compression bump and a 20+ HP increase. That's basically what we do with the Duff car. It's not as good as a dual-cam motor, but it's pretty good for a single-cam and it's about as reliable as any other single-cam motor. A B16A in good running condition exceeds the allowed value of the car, basically doubles it if you include the transmission.

As for a B20, I don't see where it would be more reliable than a B18A/B, and it's probably less reliable than just about any other B-series with it's weaker sleeves and poorer R/S ratio, but it does let you use a dual-cam transmission, the worst of which is better than the best single-cam transmission, and you get more torque in a broader band than with any other B-series. Of course if you get the USDM B20Z2 or the JDM B20B, then you also get more top end than any of the non-VTEC B18's that would have been found in a US Integra, making it a pretty good upgrade for road-racing purposes, although it doesn't have as broad a torque band as the USDM B20B, so I'm not sure that the extra 16 HP is worth it.

I thought only the unicorn JDM P8R head flows better than the P75. But from what I have found 95% of B20s come with a P75 head, (same as B18), USDM or JDM. Did the later USDM Z engines have a better head? What is the head code?

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:17 am

I'm not sure about the head; but I'm pretty sure the power increase is from higher compression. The USDM Z2's and JDM B's would all be '99-'01 engines with higher compression pistons, while the USDM B's would all be older lower compression motors.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:00 pm

Charlie Guthrie wrote:

Quote:

If you want to win, you'll probably have to cheat.

And about this one Vincent....are you "prepared" to win? :lol:

I can tell you from past experience that it takes more to win than just a fast car. I can't tell you how many races have been lost by the fastest car.

That said, we have actually quite well most of the time, at least for the first 10 races. We've had a 2nd, 3rd, and several 5th place finishes. Our last three races have been plagued with engine problems, so for the upcoming race our goal is just to finish without any major drive train problems.

Charlie Guthrie wrote:

Seriously considering hanging out at CMP for the September running of the crap cans.
Charlie G

You should come to the Lemons event at CMP. It's more of a spectacle compared to Chump Car, and the whole experience is more "fun" IMO since most teams are not hell bent on winning.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Roger McDaniels wrote:

I'm not sure about the head; but I'm pretty sure the power increase is from higher compression. The USDM Z2's and JDM B's would all be '99-'01 engines with higher compression pistons, while the USDM B's would all be older lower compression motors.

Ah, my bad ... you said "top end" and my cold-addled-brain interpreted that as "head" :sleep2:

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Vincent Keene wrote:

Charlie Guthrie wrote:

Quote:

If you want to win, you'll probably have to cheat.

And about this one Vincent....are you "prepared" to win? :lol:

I can tell you from past experience that it takes more to win than just a fast car. I can't tell you how many races have been lost by the fastest car.

this is very true. on the flip side, i can tell you precisely how many races have been won by a slow car.

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:25 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

All the rules in the world won't help if you don't enforce them

That's 100% of Chumpcar's problems. They write millions of crap rules, various people bitch about them constantly, and no one ever enforces even 1% of them. The issue with protest rules comes down to Chumpcar *actually* taking action for them -- they can, and do, simply ignore them.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

RickyBeam wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

All the rules in the world won't help if you don't enforce them

That's 100% of Chumpcar's problems. They write millions of crap rules, various people bitch about them constantly, and no one ever enforces even 1% of them. The issue with protest rules comes down to Chumpcar *actually* taking action for them -- they can, and do, simply ignore them.

Counterpoint: I think that for any one thing that comes up on the forums, there are probably another 2 things that Chump did actually take care of but no one knows about. I have heard of plenty of situations where teams (including Simon Says) have been talked to or penalized BY chump when we were found to be pushing the boundaries of the rules. They are paying attention, and I know in many cases taking action. 100% coverage? No way, but more than "1%" which is what the forums would lead everyone to believe.

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