E30 roll cage for w2w

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 pm

I'm looking to cage the E30 in preparation for wheel-to-wheel SE30 with NASA and for better protection in HPDEs. Safety is my #1 concern, but I want to balance that with a reasonable budget at the same time. i.e., I will pay what it costs for the best safety, but I don't want to overpay.

My initial thought was to go with a custom welded cage from Chris Schimmel at Competition Cages. He quoted me roughly $3,000 for the whole job which, for a custom cage from a local and well-respected fabricator, doesn't seem unreasonable. However, I just started looking at kits and found that Autopower has a weld-in kit for under $1,000 shipped (http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m ... Code=AP900). Guesstimating I could get someone to weld it in for around $500, I'm still under half of what Chris would have charged me.

My understanding is that the Autopower cage (and probably other kits) is made to be installed with the interior in the car, so in a race car like mine with the interior stripped it would leave large gaps between the bars and the walls and roof of the car. Might not be an issue for me since I'm not a tall guy, but may impact resale value and perhaps safety since the inner area of the cage would be smaller.

Thoughts and opinions from those with more experience than I? Thanks. :-)

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:18 pm

Zach, check out www.rollcagecomponents.com. They make custom weld-in kits for ANY car. They made the cage we installed in our Lemons car along with many others. They are also within driving distance if you want to save on shipping.

Greg McMahon · **Joined:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Zach Hill wrote:

I'm looking to cage the E30 in preparation for wheel-to-wheel SE30 with NASA and for better protection in HPDEs. Safety is my #1 concern, but I want to balance that with a reasonable budget at the same time. i.e., I will pay what it costs for the best safety, but I don't want to overpay.

My initial thought was to go with a custom welded cage from Chris Schimmel at Competition Cages. He quoted me roughly $3,000 for the whole job which, for a custom cage from a local and well-respected fabricator, doesn't seem unreasonable. However, I just started looking at kits and found that Autopower has a weld-in kit for under $1,000 shipped (http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m ... Code=AP900). Guesstimating I could get someone to weld it in for around $500, I'm still under half of what Chris would have charged me.

My understanding is that the Autopower cage (and probably other kits) is made to be installed with the interior in the car, so in a race car like mine with the interior stripped it would leave large gaps between the bars and the walls and roof of the car. Might not be an issue for me since I'm not a tall guy, but may impact resale value and perhaps safety since the inner area of the cage would be smaller.

Thoughts and opinions from those with more experience than I? Thanks. :-)

You won't enjoy the fit of the Autopower cage. Just my $0.02.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:22 pm

Greg McMahon wrote:

You won't enjoy the fit of the Autopower cage. Just my $0.02.

I don't doubt this. But could you elaborate on what sorts of fitment issues?

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:25 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Zach, check out http://www.rollcagecomponents.com. They make custom weld-in kits for ANY car. They made the cage we installed in our Lemons car along with many others. They are also within driving distance if you want to save on shipping.

Thanks, Vincent.

So I have to ask, why doesn't Chris Schimmel order parts from a place like this? Or maybe he does and just marks up the cost? I wonder if I could source the components myself and bring them to him or another fabricator for welding & installation? Or maybe these parts are of higher quality which cost more and would bring the cost nearer to what he quoted me? Man, I'm a n00b at this...

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:33 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Zach, check out http://www.rollcagecomponents.com. They make custom weld-in kits for ANY car. They made the cage we installed in our Lemons car along with many others. They are also within driving distance if you want to save on shipping.

Thanks, Vincent.

So I have to ask, why doesn't Chris Schimmel order parts from a place like this? Or maybe he does and just marks up the cost? I wonder if I could source the components myself and bring them to him or another fabricator for welding & installation? Or maybe these parts are of higher quality which cost more and would bring the cost nearer to what he quoted me? Man, I'm a n00b at this...

First you won't hear me say anything bad about Chris. He does damn fine work. However (unless things have changed) he doesn't build cages for a living, it's his side business and he stays booked up. Chris bends, notches, and welds all of his own stuff. Obviuously he buys the DOM tubing, but he does all the rest. He *has* retro-fitted cages built as "kits" from other places like Kirk Racing, but has to modify them a good bit (usually for a street car with interior) to have them fit correctly. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't do the install for you from another vendor, but again he's always busy so plan on being on a waiting list.

If I had the time, and you were helping maybe I could help you, but that $500 figure is a little low IMO.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:41 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

First you won't hear me say anything bad about Chris. He does damn fine work. However (unless things have changed) he doesn't build cages for a living, it's his side business and he stays booked up. Chris bends, notches, and welds all of his own stuff. Obviuously he buys the DOM tubing, but he does all the rest. He *has* retro-fitted cages built as "kits" from other places like Kirk Racing, but has to modify them a good bit (usually for a street car with interior) to have them fit correctly. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't do the install for you from another vendor, but again he's always busy so plan on being on a waiting list.

I have heard nothing but good things about Chris' work. If I only stand to save ~$500 or so by going a cheaper "kit" route it probably isn't worth it. I know he stays busy, evidenced by the fact he never called me back when I contacted him last Fall about an install over the winter (winter is of course his busiest time for cage business I'm sure).

Vincent Keene wrote:

If I had the time, and you were helping maybe I could help you, but that $500 figure is a little low IMO.

Yeah, I pulled that number straight outta my arse with no basis in fact or experience. :lol:

Thanks for your input. Sounds like I'll probably wait a bit longer to save up the rest of the cash and have Chris do a proper custom install. :thumbsup:

Greg McMahon · **Joined:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Zach Hill wrote:

Greg McMahon wrote:

You won't enjoy the fit of the Autopower cage. Just my $0.02.

I don't doubt this. But could you elaborate on what sorts of fitment issues?

I recently went around looking at different cage options myself (rally cage though so a different layout than yours I'd imagine). I found a post where someone had started with an Autopower weld in cage and after welding it all in place decided to rework the majority of it to fit tighter just about everywhere. I guess it would pass the requirements but what they ended up doing looked about 1000x better. It seemed at that point you might as well start from scratch.

I ended up deciding to buy a JD2 tubing bender, the tubing, a notcher, and some steel plate for the gussets/cage feet and have been doing it myself. It's do able but very time consuming so if you have the money, I'd vote for competition cages

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:55 pm

Greg McMahon wrote:

I ended up deciding to buy a JD2 tubing bender, the tubing, a notcher, and some steel plate for the gussets/cage feet and have been doing it myself. It's do able but very time consuming so if you have the money, I'd vote for competition cages

With the kit we bought we spent about 3 days on the install and we had to re-notch a few tubes.

One PITA in Zach's case is the primer used on BMWs. That sh*t is as flammable as gasoline. You have to grind ALL of it away within 6" of the weld to keep it from flamming up!

Greg McMahon · **Joined:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Vincent Keene wrote:

Greg McMahon wrote:

I ended up deciding to buy a JD2 tubing bender, the tubing, a notcher, and some steel plate for the gussets/cage feet and have been doing it myself. It's do able but very time consuming so if you have the money, I'd vote for competition cages

With the kit we bought we spent about 3 days on the install and we had to re-notch a few tubes.

One PITA in Zach's case is the primer used on BMWs. That sh*t is as flammable as gasoline. You have to grind ALL of it away within 6" of the weld to keep it from flamming up!

Ah man, I'd kill for it to only take 3 days!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:04 pm

Greg McMahon wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Greg McMahon wrote:

I ended up deciding to buy a JD2 tubing bender, the tubing, a notcher, and some steel plate for the gussets/cage feet and have been doing it myself. It's do able but very time consuming so if you have the money, I'd vote for competition cages

With the kit we bought we spent about 3 days on the install and we had to re-notch a few tubes.

One PITA in Zach's case is the primer used on BMWs. That sh*t is as flammable as gasoline. You have to grind ALL of it away within 6" of the weld to keep it from flamming up!

Ah man, I'd kill for it to only take 3 days!

Like I said we bought kit so the tubes were already bent and notched. Well, most of them were notched correctly. I would have killed for your tubing notcher though since the tubes we re-notched were doner with paper templates and a grinder!

Chris Schimmel · **Joined:** Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:34 am **Posts:** 50

Just wanted to chime in here.
I talk with a lot of people about cages and it must have been a while since Zach and I spoke ,because I don't remember the conversation or the quote of $3,000.00 for a cage.
As far a E 30's go ,and I done a few,the 8 point weld in cage is around $2,000.00 .
If you want custom seat mounts,I'd recommend the VAC mounts (easy button).then you get into extra money .If you want to put the car on the lift and weld in the sub frame braces ,that is extra.Fabrications outside of the cage are extra
I'm just saying that for a basic 8 point cage with me removing and reinstalling the dash,figure around $2,000.00 ..maybe a few hundred more .depending on what design we come up with.
I try to keep my prices competitive and any increases are sometimes reflected by the fluctuating cost of my tube,which can vary wildy from month to month.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:15 pm

Why, speak of the devil! This changes things a bit. I'm not sure where I got the $3k figure from, although that certainly sticks out in my head for some reason. My mistake! :stick:

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:07 pm

Here's my uninvited take, but since it's a forum.... :stick:

Hopefully you'll never see the cage used for its intended purpose. If you do, you need it to work REALLY well that one time.

Don't cut corners just to save some money. Saving a few hundred bucks isn't worth it.

(I assume you know this, but I had to say it)

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:23 pm

While my car has the Spec E30 suspension, it's in too nice condition to go wheel to wheel in (only 104k on the entire car). I am going to have Chris make me a bolt in roll bar as I will be keeping the headliner and some other interior pieces in the rear. If I decided that I wanted to go wheel to wheel, I would pull it, sell it and have Chris put in a full cage. With the interior in, the gap will be an issue, so you would be making a good choice by not going with a Kirk or the like. - AB

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