Holy brake abuse, Batman!

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:28 am

Cash Davidson wrote:

After the event the rears were hardly worn (the car’s weight bias is 63/37) and the fronts were 3/4 worn out, but showed no other ill effects.

If it were me, I wouldn't touch the rear until you started seeing some REAL wear out of the pads. It seems the front is doing most of the work.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:57 am

My $0.02 worth.

As we discussed, and as others have said, you need a race-type pad...up front. With Hawk, that means HT-10s or higher, but w/o functioning ABS, be prepared for square tires if you go too aggressive. After all _race_ pads were not designed to be used with street tires.

As for the rears, the bias doesn't warrant the expensive of race pads IMO. I ran NAPA Golds ($24) on the rear of the Z-24 and could get about 8 events out of them. I'd go with HP+ or less depending on your budget.

Regarding using HP+ for the fronts, in your situation, no. However you can't use a blanket statement that they should NEVER be used either. I happen to have just a little experience with these running them for over 7 hours STRAIGHT at CMP and they hold up just fine. However our race car is just over 2300lbs which helps of course. We used HP+ because of the price and the fact a "better" pad will result in square tires on our non-ABS equipped car.

The bent plate is a function of a single piston caliper that has reached it's limit. The same happened to me in my Z-24 at VIR-S and I had brand new Carbotech Panther Plus pads (with stock calipers) at that time. After that I modified my spindles to accept a 13" Corvette rotor and dual piston PBR caliper...problem solved.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

try the hp+ combo f/r one more time with the front bbk, that might be all you need. i just set a personal best in the integra yesterday at vir using hp+ f/r. it's also worth noting that technique plays a significant role in brake temps, firm application at high speed then tapering off pressure as the car slows and you turn in can make a noticeable difference.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:24 pm

"I happen to have just a little experience with these running them for over 7 hours STRAIGHT at CMP and they hold up just fine."

Right up to the point where they catch fire at least....................... :lol:

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:33 pm

TomFreeman wrote:

Of course...It's hard to go wrong with more brake.

Famous last words. :-) From someone used to Carbotech AX-6's, and Ken gave us XP8's at the last lemons race (didn't have AX6s), I get a little surprise the first time in the car -- "holy shit! no heat!" followed shortly by "holy shit, these things grab!"

(I put EBC yellows on the front of the bug, so I'm well aware of the "no heat" -- makes street driving interesting. Btw, the rears are stock pep boys' ceramics; they actually work great with the abs keeping the tail happy.)

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:46 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

Here's how they looked Sunday afternoon - I had to sit out my last session.

At least you still had pads. Sort of. Did you see the rear brakes on the red jetta (passat?)? Smooth, even, 1mm, if that. I'm guessing he left the abs on ("ASR" in a VW.) It might sound like a good idea for a beginner, until you see what the computer does to your brakes.

(I leave it on intentionally to know when I'm destabilizing the car. It can react in milliseconds; I cannot.)

Mark Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:16 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Regarding using HP+ for the fronts, in your situation, no. However you can't use a blanket statement that they should NEVER be used either. I happen to have just a little experience with these running them for over 7 hours STRAIGHT at CMP and they hold up just fine. However our race car is just over 2300lbs which helps of course. We used HP+ because of the price and the fact a "better" pad will result in square tires on our non-ABS equipped car.

In the Lemon's Mustang, we ran a set of HP+ at Summit Point, a HPDE and day one of CMP. We found we can get 2 CMP lemons races from a set. I run DTC70 on the front of my Fox Mustang and usually get 6-8 events. With this said, I discovered that better (i.e. track or race) pads lasted so much longer that they were cheaper overall. You know you went to far when you start locking up the tires to much (non BAS cars). If they still make them, try the Hawk 9012 Blue pads. I used them for a long time and loved the feel, bite and how long they lasted.

Pumping the cooling air to them should help a bunch too.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:19 pm

Mark Barnes wrote:

I run DTC70 on the front of my Fox Mustang and usually get 6-8 events.

I ran the DTC-60s on my Mustang and only got....TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:35 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

Mark Barnes wrote:

I run DTC70 on the front of my Fox Mustang and usually get 6-8 events.

I ran the DTC-60s on my Mustang and only got....TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might be the cooling. I have good front brake cooling so the pads last well. I only get a few events out of a set of rotors though.... Maybe I'm just not using enough brake going into the corners...

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:38 am

Mark Barnes wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Mark Barnes wrote:

I run DTC70 on the front of my Fox Mustang and usually get 6-8 events.

I ran the DTC-60s on my Mustang and only got....TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might be the cooling. I have good front brake cooling so the pads last well. I only get a few events out of a set of rotors though.... Maybe I'm just not using enough brake going into the corners...

Or it might be that your car weighs 400lbs less.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:43 pm

UPDATE

So it turns out my rear brakes basically are not working. In Sept at VIR they worked fine. At CMP the ABS, EBD & TCS didn't work. VK can confirm I flat spotted the tires a couple times. I've done some brake testing around the house and the rears hardly rub the rust off the rotors and don't get warm while the fronts heat right up.

So I'm thinking either there is air in the ABS module (from careless flushing after VIR - Doh!) or the ABS module is shot. My understanding is that only the dealer can bleed the ABS module because they have to activate the ABS pump (I have no way of activating the pump) - I'm guessing that is $150. If it is a bad module, I'm sure that's alot more.

Suggestions? Take it to the Stealership for bleeding/testing? Say "screw it" and by-pass the ABS and add a proportioning valve? I kinda like the ABS in that it keeps me from flat-spotting.

Aarrrgh! :evil:

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:53 am

I'd just remove it -- it's the cheap option. On a track car, it's really not necessary, and this proves, it's just one more thing to fail. As a student, it's a nice safety net, but it should be a high priority to learn not to trip it. I've never tripped the bug's ABS on track, but the "ASR" uses the fire out of it. (it can do what I cannot... apply brake to one wheel. in milliseconds.)

I don't know what tools (software) is necessary to cycle a mazda. It's around $300 for the hardware/software to do it on a VW/AUDI (among a great many other things.)

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 am

You can find an indy shop that can help with the ABS vs. a dealership. I'd go that route. Those who say you don't need ABS are the same people who'll remove their A/C and P/S to add 2 HP and save 15 lbs...on a street driven car...in NC.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:36 am

For fun, I pulled the ABS fuse and now when I brake hard the rears lock up - no EBD. :shock:

It looks like if I remove the hydraulic lines from the unit I'll have to keep the harness plugged into the module since it provides my vehicle speed signal - so no weight savings.

Any suggestion regarding shops that might have one of those magic computers that plug into the OBD port and cycle the ABS pump?

Thanks

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:53 am

Cash Davidson wrote:

Any suggestion regarding shops that might have one of those magic computers that plug into the OBD port and cycle the ABS pump?

Don't forget your Mazda 6 shares a platform with my Ford Fusion when asking around about service or looking for parts.

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