S2000 at HPDE

Bin Hu · **Joined:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:14 am **Posts:** 13

Exact question I've got. I'd really like to try out the S2k at a track where it's meant to be driven -- but the rule doesn't allow it. I won't give up and will try other clubs that doesn't have the rule. I understand that safety is important and no protection is enough, but I also understand that S2k is designed for track, and the A-pillar and scoops are functional rollover support.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Ruh-roh..

Stacy King · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:39 pm

Bin Hu wrote:

Exact question I've got. I'd really like to try out the S2k at a track where it's meant to be driven -- but the rule doesn't allow it. I won't give up and will try other clubs that doesn't have the rule. I understand that safety is important and no protection is enough, but I also understand that S2k is designed for track, and the A-pillar and scoops are functional rollover support.

While I no longer speak officially for the track team, I think I can safely say that it is entirely your prerogative to look elsewhere to track your S2000.

Safety is not just important, it is imperative, especially when it comes to a small organization like the THSCC track team.

All we can do is explain why THSCC doesn't allow them for high-speed track use and hope you don't take it personally.

While the S2000's hoops and A-pillar have been shown to be quite robust (at least as it has appeared in numerous images posted online), the issue is more with the height of the roll hoops with relation to a driver and/or passenger with a helmet on. I've never seen one where the driver's head would pass a broomstick test... not without modification to the seats.

So you can add race-type seats to meet the broomstick test... but then you've got harness rules in your way. Cause without a proper roll bar, you won't be able to properly install harnesses to work with the seats (seats plural, cause remember, you need equal protection for your passenger (instructor) which includes the seat.)

What it comes down to is this:
There are risks inherent to track events that we cannot control, only do our best to educate and prepare the drivers for. Then there are things we can control... convertibles pose (in our opinion) exponential danger when it comes to incidents on track. As a club, THSCC choose to require additional roll-over protection for those vehicles, even if that vehicle has factory roll over protection (generally built to withstand minimal forces as they might relate to public road incidents.)

Actually... I appreciate you bringing the subject up again... I've been trying to find for a LONG time a schematic of sorts of the S2000 hoops. So in digging around while composing this post, I found this:

Obviously, the hoops are stout, as you (and plenty others) say they are (assuming this is an accurate representation of the factory hoop structure.)

But we're not worried about the hoops... we're worried about you, and what might happen if the unthinkable were to take place.

Bin Hu · **Joined:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:14 am **Posts:** 13

Hey Stacy, thanks for the explanation! I totally understand that you can never overemphasize safety and I really appreciate it.

Stacy King wrote:

Bin Hu wrote:

Exact question I've got. I'd really like to try out the S2k at a track where it's meant to be driven -- but the rule doesn't allow it. I won't give up and will try other clubs that doesn't have the rule. I understand that safety is important and no protection is enough, but I also understand that S2k is designed for track, and the A-pillar and scoops are functional rollover support.

While I no longer speak officially for the track team, I think I can safely say that it is entirely your prerogative to look elsewhere to track your S2000.

Safety is not just important, it is imperative, especially when it comes to a small organization like the THSCC track team.

All we can do is explain why THSCC doesn't allow them for high-speed track use and hope you don't take it personally.

While the S2000's hoops and A-pillar have been shown to be quite robust (at least as it has appeared in numerous images posted online), the issue is more with the height of the roll hoops with relation to a driver and/or passenger with a helmet on. I've never seen one where the driver's head would pass a broomstick test... not without modification to the seats.

So you can add race-type seats to meet the broomstick test... but then you've got harness rules in your way. Cause without a proper roll bar, you won't be able to properly install harnesses to work with the seats (seats plural, cause remember, you need equal protection for your passenger (instructor) which includes the seat.)

What it comes down to is this:
There are risks inherent to track events that we cannot control, only do our best to educate and prepare the drivers for. Then there are things we can control... convertibles pose (in our opinion) exponential danger when it comes to incidents on track. As a club, THSCC choose to require additional roll-over protection for those vehicles, even if that vehicle has factory roll over protection (generally built to withstand minimal forces as they might relate to public road incidents.)

Actually... I appreciate you bringing the subject up again... I've been trying to find for a LONG time a schematic of sorts of the S2000 hoops. So in digging around while composing this post, I found this:

Obviously, the hoops are stout, as you (and plenty others) say they are (assuming this is an accurate representation of the factory hoop structure.)

But we're not worried about the hoops... we're worried about you, and what might happen if the unthinkable were to take place.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:47 pm

Great photo that just got posted on F-B. Guess some clubs are groovy with it, but I think I'd have put the top up on a day like this. :roll:

Stacy, thank for sharing that picture of the cutaway on the AP1. That's really cool.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:14 pm

The primary rollover protection for the S2k is the windshield frame. If you've seen any s2k on its roof they are usually balanced on the frame. The roll hoops are rarely damaged or even touched. The frame is a stout piece.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:24 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

The primary rollover protection for the S2k is the windshield frame. If you've seen any s2k on its roof they are usually balanced on the frame. The roll hoops are rarely damaged or even touched. The frame is a stout piece.

i'm sure they work great as long as your head is below the hoops and your arms don't go flying about in the rollover. :roll:

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:21 am

steve remchak wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

The primary rollover protection for the S2k is the windshield frame. If you've seen any s2k on its roof they are usually balanced on the frame. The roll hoops are rarely damaged or even touched. The frame is a stout piece.

i'm sure they work great as long as your head is below the hoops and your arms don't go flying about in the rollover. :roll:

Isn't that true of any convertible? What's your point?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:30 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

The primary rollover protection for the S2k is the windshield frame. If you've seen any s2k on its roof they are usually balanced on the frame. The roll hoops are rarely damaged or even touched. The frame is a stout piece.

i'm sure they work great as long as your head is below the hoops and your arms don't go flying about in the rollover. :roll:

Isn't that true of any convertible? What's your point?

absolutely true. which is why the rule exists.

if you look closely at the picture Matt posted you will notice that none of those drivers' heads are below the factory hoops.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:29 am

That's why I mentioned the s2k's primary rollover protection is the windshield frame. Everyone was focusing on the roll hoops.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:22 pm

maybe, but if there is a possibility that i'm going over i want my head below all of the available protection.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:37 pm

steve remchak wrote:

if you look closely at the picture Matt posted you will notice that none of those drivers' heads are below the factory hoops.

Exactly. I think the rollhoops aren't really that assuring and what's to keep them from digging into the runoff, as they're basically just two rigid points of impact so to speak? The windshield is the main source of safety as Marcus mentioned.

Every impact is obviously different, but here's a good case in point:

Taking about rollovers is such a morbid topic but can't say I didn't do a little research before finally getting the S, which involved some google image searching.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:47 pm

what we do is dangerous. there is no way to sugar coat that.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:48 pm

The miata has pretty much zero rollover protection. I can see why you would want to make sure people's heads are below the roll bar.

I can't tell if that's an NB or NC.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:54 pm

i'm sure there is a "Tail" or two with that picture..............

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