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So what's the difference with the "get out of jail" cards? Doesn't pretty much everyone end up in "jail" at some point? And thus the cards would be just as "required" as buying the Chump laps? Doesn't sound out of the question that teams have spent $100+ in "bribes" at LeMons events. Maybe not a ton more, but that's the ballpark...

You LeMons guys sort of crack me up with what you *will* put up with versus what you *won't*. Looked like a lot of the teams easily spend $100+ doing their "theme", but you'll complain about $100 that goes to charity for 5 laps? (Yes, I realize some of this is LeMons versus Chump issues, but it's pretty much the same group of people here...)

And none of this is a knock on that type of racing in general, I think it's great. It's just odd in many ways...


--Donnie

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My Blog

We haven't had to buy a get out of jail card in the 6 races we have done, so no, you don't have to buy one. If you have to make a donation to win, it's not a donation. That's like having a 50/50 raffle, but then being guilted in to giving up your 50% when you win....what's the point? I don't have a lot of money so I'm probably not as charitable as most when it comes to that kind of stuff. Luckily, I haven't require any charity either. It's like giving blood....I don't donate blood because I've never needed it and I'm squeamish when it comes to that kind of stuff. If I ever need it...I'll be sure to give it back after wards though.

In regards to themes, ask my team, I could care less about it and really don't care to spend money on it. I'm there for the race. We also haven't bribed the judges in the last 4 races we have entered. The bribe isn't required if you aren't cheating (at least not obviously).

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought even if someone made contact with *you* (ie. it was fairly obviously their fault), you both got stopped. Is that overblown and thus not really true, or have you guys not even been hit by someone else? I was under the impression that in the course of a race like this everyone got stopped for *something*, not necessarily "cheating", though. Is that just teams that race a little, err, "harder" than some that are always having to stop a time or two a race?

Obviously if you haven't needed a bribe in six races then you're doing something right, yeah. I was under the wrong assumption that doing that wasn't even possible based on the stuff I had seen.

But still, I know a $100 isn't dirt, but spread out amongst a team it isn't *that* bad, either. But then again I have no idea what the difference is already between LeMons and Chumpcar entry fees. Me, I'd just look at it as a cost of entry and decide based on *that* number if I'm gonna do the race (since, as you say, most are going to pay it).


--Donnie

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My Blog

We haven't purchased the get out of jail or the charity bonus laps but here is how I understand a comparison between the two works... CHUMP- purchase 1-5 "bonus" laps before the race starts. You start ahead of the guy who did not buy any. In our case, we had 1 penalty lap so we could have bought our way to 0 laps oto plus 4 laps at the start. LEMONS- get out of jail pass is purchase at the time of the infraction or in advance. Doesn't change the lap relation to other teams until after you have been nailed for something (then at that point, you are still going down laps just being the in the penalty box but can reduce the amount of the penalty).

Understanding the game before it starts allows you to make a better call. At the Chump race, there were 4 or 5 cars we had no chance of beating unless they all blew up (a few did) and we ran the perfect race. At the last few lemons races, we have gotten a penalty but they have sent us right back out. If we really screwed the pooch, might have paid up if we were in contention but most likely would have served it out. No real difference between 10th and 13th so save the cash.

Since both are optional, I would never let them stop me from racing either series. If I think we have a real chance of winning, I would add a few extra bucks to the budget to cover these items. I don't have any problems with either group raising a few bucks for charity. Come check them both out, you'll get hooked.

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Mark Barnes
*13 Grabber Blue Boss 302 Mustang
*93 Reef Blue Mustang LX 5.0 track car
*Grim Reaper Racing V-6 Mustang LeMons/Chump car
*91 Calypso Green Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible

I'll say this again for those who may be contemplating starting a Lemons team. If you always believe in what is "fair" then save your time and money. "Fair" in Lemons is always subjective, and as often as not, may be 100% opposite of your thinking. "Fair" is what they say it is...at that particular moment. Once you come to terms with that fact, and you go solely to have a good time, you'll likely be coming back.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Ditto for both Series.

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Mark Barnes
*13 Grabber Blue Boss 302 Mustang
*93 Reef Blue Mustang LX 5.0 track car
*Grim Reaper Racing V-6 Mustang LeMons/Chump car
*91 Calypso Green Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible

FYI Stephen last year at VIR we donated $100 worth of food. now they are just taking money apparently.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............