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 Post subject: fun afternoon at NCCAR
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:26 pm 
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Today I had a fun afternoon running some laps at NCCAR. Jackie and her dad shared the e90 330i, my dad was there with his 997S and I drove my 996.

We showed up around 1:30 and Simon Cobb showed us around the office and the workbays, including their slick new top-of-the-line Hunter alignment rack, road force balancer, and tire mounter.

We signed our waivers and were given a quick safety brief before being let loose on the track. We ran several laps in each direction and also did a bit of car-swapping. Jackie enjoyed the 330 and the 996, and I got to spend some seat time in the 997.

After a few hours we paid for our on-track time ($100 per car per hour on track) and went home. Brakes and tires held up pretty well (the course is not particularly brake-intensive) and everyone had a good time.

The course is more challenging than it looks in photos and it can be really difficult to pick a good line because of how long the turns are, most of which are also constant radius.

I shot some in-car video with my GoPro HD which I will try to edit and upload in a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:13 am 
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So how does this work exactly?

You said $100 per car per hour on track, does that mean they keep track of when you get on and off the track and only charge you for that time? Or is it charged from when you arrive at the track facility until you leave?


If it's the former, then that sounds like a very good deal, if it's the latter, it could still be a good deal, provided you don't spend alot of time fiddling around off the track.



Thx.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Very cool William...

THSCC is doing an event there, and Asphalt Ventures will be doing three events there (mixing up the circuit direction to keep things interesting.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:24 pm 
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BretLuter wrote:
So how does this work exactly?

You said $100 per car per hour on track, does that mean they keep track of when you get on and off the track and only charge you for that time? Or is it charged from when you arrive at the track facility until you leave?


If it's the former, then that sounds like a very good deal, if it's the latter, it could still be a good deal, provided you don't spend alot of time fiddling around off the track.


What he said. Did you just show up and they said sure have it and we'll bill you later?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Vincent Keene wrote:
BretLuter wrote:
So how does this work exactly?

You said $100 per car per hour on track, does that mean they keep track of when you get on and off the track and only charge you for that time? Or is it charged from when you arrive at the track facility until you leave?


If it's the former, then that sounds like a very good deal, if it's the latter, it could still be a good deal, provided you don't spend alot of time fiddling around off the track.


What he said. Did you just show up and they said sure have it and we'll bill you later?


Yea, like the Nürburgring ?

I'm not much of a fan of toll roads ... but a toll track is a different story.

Frank


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Vincent Keene wrote:
What he said. Did you just show up and they said sure have it and we'll bill you later?


Pretty much. We covered the insurance issue with private insurance ahead of time they accepted (umbrella liability policies) else they would have charged $375 for a one-day policy. There was nobody there, so we arranged ahead of time to run the track, and we paid afterward for our time on track...just told them when we started and when we finished which was about exactly two hours.

Running it counter-clockwise is more fun to me, but it is by far the more dangerous direction solely due to what exists at the end of the long straight (very little grass and then a tire wall/barrier, no significant distance on either side of the barrier to extend your run-off). This of course would only apply in the case of a mechanical failure, brake fade/failure, etc, but the end result would be profound. Simon noted that eventually the track will be extended past that turn, etc, so it's only temporary for now (although I doubt the place will get funding in this climate to continue expanding).

It's definitely more of a "learning" type track imo, and absolutely unlike any race track I've driven on (Road Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, Lime Rock, VIR, Summit Point, etc). All the turns are constant radius, and a number of them go on for what seems like forever.

There is almost no elevation change of significance, and there is little significant camber change for the most part (i.e. nothing like say the Patriot course).

I said "learning" track in the sense that you can work with people really easily on throttle modulation car control on the 200 degree plus turn in the middle for example. There are many sections where you can get a lot of practice/instruction accomplished per lap just because of the length of the continuous radius corners.

Jackie and I co-drove the E90 -- totally stock E90 330i with sport package and PS2 tires. It's been many years since I've been on track with a factory-stock car on street tires, but I was very impressed with it. Sure it was balanced toward understeer, what with the wheel/tire stagger and all, but it also responded very nicely to throttle modulation in those long corners to adjust your line, etc. Great feedback to the driver through the wheel and butt. Using a very conservative braking zone initiation, it was hitting just over 125mph on the straight running counter-clockwise.

All-in-all a very fun afternoon at "our" (taxpayer) facility. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Invite me next time dangit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:54 pm 
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That sounds really awesome actually, especially given the proximity to Raleigh.

We're in the process of scoping out a new autocross site(s) for '11. Is there any potential there? I saw the aerial shots but they seem to be a little dated and the grid area didn't look too big.

Perhaps we could slow it down a little on the track with plenty of cones.

Totally unrelated, I think I just saw you two on 440 around 3:30 in the red 330i. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Matt McGrain wrote:
That sounds really awesome actually, especially given the proximity to Raleigh.

We're in the process of scoping out a new autocross site(s) for '11. Is there any potential there? I saw the aerial shots but they seem to be a little dated and the grid area didn't look too big.

Perhaps we could slow it down a little on the track with plenty of cones.

Totally unrelated, I think I just saw you two on 440 around 3:30 in the red 330i. :wink:


NASA-MA does CircuitCross on VIR Patriot and a small speedway, why not try a non-points CircuitCross at NCCAR?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Matt McGrain wrote:
That sounds really awesome actually, especially given the proximity to Raleigh.

We're in the process of scoping out a new autocross site(s) for '11. Is there any potential there? I saw the aerial shots but they seem to be a little dated and the grid area didn't look too big.

Perhaps we could slow it down a little on the track with plenty of cones.

Totally unrelated, I think I just saw you two on 440 around 3:30 in the red 330i. :wink:


At some point, that 2-acre "paddock" area will be expanded to a NINE acre Vehicle Dynamic Area

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Matt McGrain wrote:
That sounds really awesome actually, especially given the proximity to Raleigh.

We're in the process of scoping out a new autocross site(s) for '11. Is there any potential there? I saw the aerial shots but they seem to be a little dated and the grid area didn't look too big.

Perhaps we could slow it down a little on the track with plenty of cones.

Totally unrelated, I think I just saw you two on 440 around 3:30 in the red 330i. :wink:


That was probably Jackie and Ash (William).

Back in 2005, the BMW CCA had their national Oktoberfest event at VIR, and Triad managed the autocross for them on the Patriot course. Whoever did the course layout did a superb job in cone placement to control speeds and yet still be a really fun and challenging course (they didn't just let people loose to go all out against the clock on the course as that isn't an "autocross" per se but a time trial with a whole different set of insurance issues, etc).

So I was thinking about that event yesterday while I was at NCCAR trying to picture an autox event there. I believe it would be possible to layout cones such that we would have a fun yet safe course. One of the most challenging elements I've ever encountered on an autox course was at the Performance Center where they have a very large radius turn with a slalom right along the center of the path. We could easily do something similar on the huge 200+ degree turn there.

The paddock area is plenty large enough now to handle an autox group, especially since we wouldn't need to use the front straight area in front of it.

It's worth some thought at least.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Ok, found a picture of part of the O'fest autox course to give you an idea of what I meant above:

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:18 am 
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I think NCCAR might not want to do an autocross because it is a competitive event. You could be "researching" who could drive the fastest but they might not bite on that!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:45 am 
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I think they'd be fine with it... 'specially seeing as how they are letting us (THSCC) install an AMB timing loop to run time trials (NASA is also promoting TT at their NCCAR event)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:15 am 
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Why would they care? We are paying them and we have our own insurance. Their only concern should be garbage and stupid people speeding or doing burnouts etc which we don't have problems with.

A circuitcross would be fun at Patriot or NCCAR. My only one was at Patriot with NASA but it was raining and cold so I don't even count it ;).

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