n00b question

RobLupella · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:28 pm

Andrew Jonell wrote:

Karl Shultz wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

I mean, there are no cool "1st place Green Group" magnets running around, are there? :wink:

I've never seen any, but I hope to soon. That's hysterical. :lol:

What are you guys talking about? My fridge is covered in them.

Track Events don't give away magnets. You just go drive and go home again (assuming your car is in one piece) :twisted:

sorry, couldn't resist :wink:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:50 pm

ya know, i've been thinking on this discussion today. last grass-cutting weekend of the season..........

i remember early on in my HPDE learning curve when my Instructor decided i would practice driving off line. he apparently had to notify the powers-that-be so as i was not black-flagged for reckless behavior. i got to practice turn in and track out from a different perspective.

but when i actually had my first off, i was alone. Roebling, turn 2. probably took the outside line and couldn't hold it all the way thru. i remember, i was freaking thrilled. i actually got to practice an off.

my point is, if this is actually Drivers Education we are investing our time and money into, why don't we practice worst case scenarios?

i find it hard to believe that if i was running in the Rolex 24 Hours and i had an off i would have never been taught what or how to negotiate such a situation.

i get it, offs are not the norm; but they are something that everyone needs to be able to handle in a safe manner. the current "just put both feet in" training is not sufficient in my considered opinion.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

steve remchak wrote:

ya know, i've been thinking on this discussion today. last grass-cutting weekend of the season..........

i remember early on in my HPDE learning curve when my Instructor decided i would practice driving off line. he apparently had to notify the powers-that-be so as i was not black-flagged for reckless behavior. i got to practice turn in and track out from a different perspective.

but when i actually had my first off, i was alone. Roebling, turn 2. probably took the outside line and couldn't hold it all the way thru. i remember, i was freaking thrilled. i actually got to practice an off.

my point is, if this is actually Drivers Education we are investing our time and money into, why don't we practice worst case scenarios?

i find it hard to believe that if i was running in the Rolex 24 Hours and i had an off i would have never been taught what or how to negotiate such a situation.

i get it, offs are not the norm; but they are something that everyone needs to be able to handle in a safe manner. the current "just put both feet in" training is not sufficient in my considered opinion.

I don't see how you can practice offs in and of themselves in any kind of controlled situation. I would guess that the best an instructor could do is ask the student "what if you went off track right here" questions to get them thinking about it - on a < 80% lap of course. Just put both feet in is about the 'safest' default reaction you could instill I would bet, even if it wasn't the best in every situation.

I'm far from being "there yet" when it comes to driving ability, but driving in track, AX, and rallyX has probably made me a much better driver in all 3 than concentrating on any single one of them would have. RallyX could probably be the best practice for what you describe - you're always off

RobLupella · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:25 pm

steve remchak wrote:

ya know, i've been thinking on this discussion today. last grass-cutting weekend of the season..........

i remember early on in my HPDE learning curve when my Instructor decided i would practice driving off line. he apparently had to notify the powers-that-be so as i was not black-flagged for reckless behavior. i got to practice turn in and track out from a different perspective.

but when i actually had my first off, i was alone. Roebling, turn 2. probably took the outside line and couldn't hold it all the way thru. i remember, i was freaking thrilled. i actually got to practice an off.

my point is, if this is actually Drivers Education we are investing our time and money into, why don't we practice worst case scenarios?

i find it hard to believe that if i was running in the Rolex 24 Hours and i had an off i would have never been taught what or how to negotiate such a situation.

i get it, offs are not the norm; but they are something that everyone needs to be able to handle in a safe manner. the current "just put both feet in" training is not sufficient in my considered opinion.

At my first DE at Roebling I spun in turn 5A and my instructor was happy saying that he pushes all his students until they spin

One of the things I like about doing Chin Motorsports events is that once you are in Blue group, you can practice passing anywhere - you don't have to but you can give and take point bys in turns. This to me increases the learning aspect of the DE. I learned to pass in turn 4 at VIR; I learned to be passed going into turn 1 at VIR, Same with turn 3 and about every other place you can possibly pass or be passed. (given my 90whp mostly be passed given that I was the slowest car in the group. As hard as I try I can't keep up with the GT3's and Z06's ) :roll:

I have had I think 4 offs in my maybe 12 or so DE's and I learned from all of them. Only 1 cause any damage and that was minor. I think it would be difficult to practice "Offs". I agree with someone on one of the myriad earlier posts that said don't concentrate on what you might hit but look at where you want to be - your hands will try to take you there and that is your best shot.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:15 pm

KendtEklund wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

ya know, i've been thinking on this discussion today. last grass-cutting weekend of the season..........

i remember early on in my HPDE learning curve when my Instructor decided i would practice driving off line. he apparently had to notify the powers-that-be so as i was not black-flagged for reckless behavior. i got to practice turn in and track out from a different perspective.

but when i actually had my first off, i was alone. Roebling, turn 2. probably took the outside line and couldn't hold it all the way thru. i remember, i was freaking thrilled. i actually got to practice an off.

my point is, if this is actually Drivers Education we are investing our time and money into, why don't we practice worst case scenarios?

i find it hard to believe that if i was running in the Rolex 24 Hours and i had an off i would have never been taught what or how to negotiate such a situation.

i get it, offs are not the norm; but they are something that everyone needs to be able to handle in a safe manner. the current "just put both feet in" training is not sufficient in my considered opinion.

I don't see how you can practice offs in and of themselves in any kind of controlled situation. I would guess that the best an instructor could do is ask the student "what if you went off track right here" questions to get them thinking about it - on a < 80% lap of course. Just put both feet in is about the 'safest' default reaction you could instill I would bet, even if it wasn't the best in every situation.

I'm far from being "there yet" when it comes to driving ability, but driving in track, AX, and rallyX has probably made me a much better driver in all 3 than concentrating on any single one of them would have. RallyX could probably be the best practice for what you describe - you're always off

are you saying i'm off Kendt? what do you mean I'm off?

what do you mean, you mean the way i drive? what?

Off how? what's off about it?

Off how Anthony?

let me understand this, maybe it's me. i'm off how? maybe i'm a clown. i'm here to amuse you? i make you laugh, i'm fu**in here to amuse you? what do you mean off, off how? how am i off?

what the f*** is so off about me?

tell me, tell me what's off?

ya LeMons driving mutha fu****, i wonder about you sometimes, Kendt. You may fold under questioning.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:22 pm

That's what I like about Steve...he's very subdued.

--Donnie

Stacy King · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:07 pm

@Steve...

I think "practicing" offs is a great idea... but it's very hard to do, even in a DE environment. That's what LeMons racing is for (ZING!)

However... one place you can ABSOLUTELY practice "offs" is a skid pad... and it JUST so happens Asphalt Ventures will have an open skid pad during its November 28th & 29th VIR event! :wink:

I actually agree that you can learn a TON by having an off... the trick is, just like expanding your performance envelope, you also want to expand your "crisis management" envelope... in a DE environment, the whole point is to expand your performance envelope GRADUALLY... which means, buy default, you'll expand that crisis management envelope GRADUALLY and if done correctly, without surprise, and without damage.

Steve, I'll bet that your off at Roebling came as no shock to you while it happened... is that right? Most of my offs, I can tell you I knew they were going to happen well before they actually happened, except for one:

Turn 1 at Roebling... my infamous "berm riding" off. I was completely blinded by red mist trying to stay in front of John King that I completely blew my braking point, panic braked, and immediately locked all four wheels. I was caught completely off guard. Had it been a "normal" blown braking zone, I probably could have saved the turn. (In fact, had I not been in panic mode, I probably would have known I'd scrubbed enough speed to make the turn... maybe not, we'll never know.)

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:43 pm

true Stacy, my first off was no suprise. my second was a total suprise. flat tire = tire wall.

my third was vexing to say the least. with all that real estate out there in the wet grass i still collected a tire wall. that one still bothers me. i was just along for the ride.

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