THSCC Forums

I'm starting to think about getting into track (just DEs at first), and I was running down the safety rules for the THSCC DEs. I know a roll bar is required for a convertible, but can a T-Top stand alone? Also, if I get a car set up so it's valid for THSCC, am I likely to run into more stringent regulations at other clubs, or are things more or less standardized?

More generally, are there any pitfalls I should avoid when looking for a car I can use both for autocross and DEs?

There are others that can answer your safety questions better than I, but I have a T top car that I have driven in HPDEs. However, I have decided to stop using that car unless I put a roll bar in it.
Much depends on how fast your car is, if you are using R compound tires, your driving ability and how fast you want to go on track. I dialed it back to about 80% the last time I was at VIR so I wouldn't kill myself and Sean could pass me.
Our track events are very safe, but you as the driver are the factor that determines how safe you are. I'm old and try to stay within the limits of my little driving ability. Others don't and "offs" are common for them. A few have hit walls, guard rails and other cars. In all but one of those, it was their own fault. Sometimes mechanical failures cause wrecks. We had one of those at CMP a while back.
The best advice I can give you is, "If you aren't willing to walk away from a totaled car, don't take it on the track."

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Rubbin' is Racin'

Jennifer,

The Lotus you know you want to buy has roll protection built into it and should be OK for most HPDEs.

Chrome Orange is the best color. Buy a 2006 or later.

...you know you want one.

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Chrome Orange IS the best color, but this one comes with extra wheels!

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/418478.aspx

True....that update in the first post looks a bit *interesting* as i'd like to see the cracks/nicks as well as the cracked windshield. On the Elise the windshield is pretty integral to body structural rigidity, and if someone uses it and the APillar to get themselves out it'll crack pretty quickly. Pics before purchase, for sure. $33k for all thos extras may be a good price. Consider a PPI before buying. Good luck!

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Yeah, definitely on the pics and inspection. $33k is probably a good-but-not-incredible price, but he might come down some. Of course, then I'd have to figure out whether I'm brave enough to take something that expensive to the track. And whether Mark's brave enough to let me. Still, window shopping is a blast!

THSCC events are very safe - they stress that. Their classroom is good. I would not hesitate to recommend them.

I have run with a bunch of clubs, THSCC, MazdaDrivers, 3 different Porch clubs, Chin Motorsports and have not found any of them to run unsafe events or events where I felt in danger. You can run in the novice group where speeds are slower.

Tarheel runs good events at VIR and CMP - both good tracks. One of the Porch clubs (either Hurricane/Coastal Empire/or Darkside) is running at Roebling Road near Savannah and that is also a good fun track to learn on.

Take the truck it has a roof Actually any car with a roof is safe (well except for Corvettes which are usually driven by red-necked yahoos who can only drive fast in a straight line and therefore need a rollbar.) if you stay within your limits. You can decide when you are scaring yourself enough to get a rollbar, race seats and belts etc.
I like Aubergine Purple or Racing Green

Direct quote from Jennifer - "I just can't understand the mindset that does not involve being a daredevil."

I say go for the rollbar

My only suggestion as a former instructor for Car Guys and TrackTime: Don't invest a lot of money until you know that you will enjoy the sport or use it as a stepping stone to wheel to wheel. It is like autocrossing . . . some like it and some don't enough to justify the cost and time.

Even driving V-8 Mustangs I found that the "budget and drive it home" aspects were a limiting factor. Of course I was driving my commute car.

As an instructor it took a lot of self control to stay "sane" and limit the "racing" aspects. Had a couple of really close calls. Plus even a stock 88 5.0 Mustang had to back off a BUNCH at the beginning of straights to let most of the faster Porsches, etc get by. Fortunately they rarely were slower than me in the corners . . . but I certainly put the car on the edge a lot to minimize the difference.

Riding with "scary newbies" wasn't worth the "risk" to me to reduce the out of pocket expenses.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

As an additional thought, if your goal is to really learn and experience high speed, close to the limit, open track driving it might be better to attend a professional school using their cars.

I did that with Bob Bondurant at Sears Point (Datsun Z for open track portion) and Skip Barber at Lime Rock for Formula Ford.

Pay for it with the money you don't spend preparing and wearing out your car.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

How do the clutches and transmissions hold up on "used hard" Elises? I get the impression that a lot of owners shift these syncro boxes just like a racing Hewland is shifted . . . not good for longevity with a street gearbox.

Other than that theoretical concern, GREAT choice.

Speaking as a former Lotus Europa owner who won a National Championship in the car he totally rebuilt (including engine and trans) himself after purchase.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Thanks for mentioning it -- I'll have to check on that.

I've done enough DEs with my dad at Heartland Park to know that I would love to do it regularly (I get post-track depression every time I come home). In spite of one silly spin (seriously, don't pop the clutch coming around T13) and one very mild off, I have a a lot of confidence in my ability to stay inside the limits of the car and my driving. I have never felt unsafe in stock Z3s and Boxsters. Maria is right, and I will spin my MR2 at autocross without apology, but track is a different venue.

My only concern with the Elise is that someone else's bad moment, or a mechanical failure, could result in $30k+ of totalled car that I have no way of recouping (I'm assuming it's impossible to get collision insurance that will cover track events -- correct me if I'm wrong). It makes me wonder if what I should be looking for is a lower-priced prepped car that someone else has already spent a decade or more flogging around the track, so that my financial risk is limited in a worst-case scenario.

I'd love to do a professional school at some point, but I doubt it will reduce my desire to get back to the track three or four times a year. It'll probably just make it a thousand times worse.

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/ They cover all our events. The deductible is like $2000 or 2500 if something happens, but that's a whole lot better than $30k plus.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

Rob, I am insulted that you left Camaros out of this. I actually think rednecks prefer Camaros over Corvettes.
Also, I think you have LS envy!

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Rubbin' is Racin'

Camaros race

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner