brake pad advice for the mustang

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:45 am

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:06 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

Rodney, How are you bleeding your brakes? Are any special tools or techniques required due to the ABS?

well, I was all smug in the fact I have a motive brake bleeder that worked great on the 328, but you made me go look at the mustang. The cap on the mustang is a simple 1/4 turn cap, so that's probably not going to hold the pressure from the bleeder. Guess it's time to start doing some research.

As for the ABS, a trick I was told on the 328 was to engage the ABS and then keep the car running to keep the valve open while you bleed the brakes. I did this, but can't confirm or deny if it actually helped replace fluid in the ABS valve.

I can use some advice on how to properly bleed and replace the brake fluid on the mustang.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:08 am

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

get off my thread.... :twisted:

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:35 am

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

get off my thread.... :twisted:

How about if I add possibly related content? In GMs the only way to flush the fluid in the ABS is to throw a scan tool on it and tell it to run the ABS fluid flush program. The ABS module on my Ranger and GTO look pretty similar, I'd be pretty surprised if the procedure is different between the two makes. From what I saw in my research was that unless you let the reservoir run dry you can ignore the fluid in the ABS. If you get air into the ABS then you need the scan tool to get it out.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:45 am

JamesMilko wrote:

From what I saw in my research was that unless you let the reservoir run dry you can ignore the fluid in the ABS. If you get air into the ABS then you need the scan tool to get it out.

This is correct per my research on my Chevy Z-24 as well.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:14 pm

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

i don't have a Miata but i will say i was under the impression the Hawk DTCs were meant for a heavier car. i can say i didn't like the DTCs i had on my E36. couldn't get them hot enough.

so i yanked the DTCs mid-weekend and bought a set of HT-14s from CDOC and they worked perfectly the rest of the weekend.

James, IMO you can't go wrong with HT-10s. i've been running them for years on my E36.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:38 pm

JamesMilko wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

get off my thread.... :twisted:

How about if I add possibly related content? In GMs the only way to flush the fluid in the ABS is to throw a scan tool on it and tell it to run the ABS fluid flush program. The ABS module on my Ranger and GTO look pretty similar, I'd be pretty surprised if the procedure is different between the two makes. From what I saw in my research was that unless you let the reservoir run dry you can ignore the fluid in the ABS. If you get air into the ABS then you need the scan tool to get it out.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty relevant. So now I need to get hold of a scan tool to do the brake fluid correctly. Maybe I won't do the HPDE, just spending more and more money that I'd rather not spend right now....

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

steve remchak wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

i don't have a Miata but i will say i was under the impression the Hawk DTCs were meant for a heavier car. i can say i didn't like the DTCs i had on my E36. couldn't get them hot enough.

so i yanked the DTCs mid-weekend and bought a set of HT-14s from CDOC and they worked perfectly the rest of the weekend.

James, IMO you can't go wrong with HT-10s. i've been running them for years on my E36.

the dtc series is just the latest "revision" of their track pad. dtc60/70 were intended to replace the ht10/14 compounds. of course that doesn't always work out*. i've used ht10 on both the nsx and e30, worked well on both cars but that was before i tried the pfc line.

* see toyo ra1/888 debacle

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:27 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

get off my thread.... :twisted:

How about if I add possibly related content? In GMs the only way to flush the fluid in the ABS is to throw a scan tool on it and tell it to run the ABS fluid flush program. The ABS module on my Ranger and GTO look pretty similar, I'd be pretty surprised if the procedure is different between the two makes. From what I saw in my research was that unless you let the reservoir run dry you can ignore the fluid in the ABS. If you get air into the ABS then you need the scan tool to get it out.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty relevant. So now I need to get hold of a scan tool to do the brake fluid correctly. Maybe I won't do the HPDE, just spending more and more money that I'd rather not spend right now....

Rodney, you are way over-thinking this Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are going to a HPDE-Ducation not freaking Le Mans.

besides, how many miles do you have on that car? i'm quite sure your owner's manual says you should have your fluid flushed by the dealer at about 50K anyway.

change your fluid, do the DE and then take it to the dealer for a complete flush.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:05 pm

steve remchak wrote:

Rodney, you are way over-thinking this Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are going to a HPDE-Ducation not freaking Le Mans.

besides, how many miles do you have on that car? i'm quite sure your owner's manual says you should have your fluid flushed by the dealer at about 50K anyway.

change your fluid, do the DE and then take it to the dealer for a complete flush.

yeah probably.... I do want to drive in the HPDE, be a nice break from autox'g. Just need to spend my money wisely. the new take off site has some killer deals on rotors and I'm sure I can get hold of a scan tool, so I'm good. Brake pads are my only unknown right now. Thinking of running the XP10's all around on a dedicated set of rotors. Sounds like stopping is paramount at CMP.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:17 pm

steve remchak wrote:

Rodney, you are way over-thinking this Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are going to a HPDE-Ducation not freaking Le Mans.

besides, how many miles do you have on that car? i'm quite sure your owner's manual says you should have your fluid flushed by the dealer at about 50K anyway.

change your fluid, do the DE and then take it to the dealer for a complete flush.

Exactly what I was thinking. Get some moderate performance pads, spare rotors (they do not go bad) and go out have fun.

It is not like you are going to be thresh hold braking lap after lap. The only issue is CMP does not allow a lot time for brakes to cool as opposed to VIR. If the pedal is getting soft back off for a lap or two. Summit and CMP are exactly a like on pads. I have never had issues at either.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:06 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

Rodney, you are way over-thinking this Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are going to a HPDE-Ducation not freaking Le Mans.

besides, how many miles do you have on that car? i'm quite sure your owner's manual says you should have your fluid flushed by the dealer at about 50K anyway.

change your fluid, do the DE and then take it to the dealer for a complete flush.

yeah probably.... I do want to drive in the HPDE, be a nice break from autox'g. Just need to spend my money wisely. the new take off site has some killer deals on rotors and I'm sure I can get hold of a scan tool, so I'm good. Brake pads are my only unknown right now. Thinking of running the XP10's all around on a dedicated set of rotors. Sounds like stopping is paramount at CMP.

turn 1 yeah, 8 maybe & 11 for sure. talk to the guys at Carbotech. they may tell you an XP8 would work. i got at least 4 weekends out of the Carbotechs i had, plus i was too lazy to take them off the car so i drove on them for awhile and i believe i did an AutoX or two also.

i'd have probably gotten another weekend out of those pads if i hadn't let Graham co-drive at CMP. :shock:

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

I'll just hijack this thread a bit about pads for my Miata. I was thinking either XP10/8, Hawk HT-10s or Hawk DTC 60s. The Hawks are about $100 less than the carbotechs but more people seem to like the Carbotechs. Are they worth the premium?

get off my thread.... :twisted:

How about if I add possibly related content? In GMs the only way to flush the fluid in the ABS is to throw a scan tool on it and tell it to run the ABS fluid flush program. The ABS module on my Ranger and GTO look pretty similar, I'd be pretty surprised if the procedure is different between the two makes. From what I saw in my research was that unless you let the reservoir run dry you can ignore the fluid in the ABS. If you get air into the ABS then you need the scan tool to get it out.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty relevant. So now I need to get hold of a scan tool to do the brake fluid correctly. Maybe I won't do the HPDE, just spending more and more money that I'd rather not spend right now....

I guess I should have checked my own shop manual. Says you need a "Vehicle Communication Module (VCM) and Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) software with appropriate hardware, or equivalent scan tool". Like James said.

Then in the procedure it says to "Connect the scan tool cable adapter to the vehicle data link connector (DLC) under the dash and follow the scan tool instructions. Rest of the instructions are standard brake bleeding technique with an assistant working the pedal.

Don't forget that the brakes and the clutch share the same reservoir. Two reasons why you don't want to let it run dry.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:27 am

so I just weighed the mustang in its autox trim which is no spare/jack, autox wheels/tires and a 1/4 tank of gas. It trips the scales at 3420, which is much lighter than I expected. The scales I used are in 20lb increments, so it can +/- a few lbs of that weight. Not bad for a stock class car.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:47 am

Steve -- Yes, the 99-04 Cobras have an IRS, the GTs do not.

Rodney,

With what you have right now, you are fine. I HIGHLY doubt you are going to go through a new set of pads in your weekend at CMP. I have done it, but not in the first couple of years of tracking. Plus, in an emergency, you can always go to the local store and pick up a set of high-end street pads to carry you over (or just bring your street set with you if you have them). Same goes for the rotors. I NEVER broke a rotor on my Cobra (unlike the Z06 where I break a rotor per weekend)... they would last close to two years (Brembo blanks). IF you happen to crack one, you can generally pick one up at Autozone or Advance. Don't over plan this and don't spend a ton of money getting ready.

As for bleeding the brakes, again, don't let everyone make you overthink the process. Here is what I suggest if you are going to flush the entire system and put in new fluid:

- Take the car out to a back road or some where that has a loose surface. Get it up to a nominal speed and nail the brakes to induce the ABS function. Even if you have to leave two tires on the pavement and two in the grass, get the system to modulate. That will ensure the solenoids have pulsed in the module.
- Take a turkey baster and suck the old fluid out of the brake reservoir. Refill with new fluid.
- Either with help or with a one-man-bleeder, crack the bleeder valve and bleed fluid from the caliper the farthest from the reservoir (right rear most likely). Keep an eagle eye on the reservoir and do NOT let it get empty. Keep bleeding the line and filling the reservoir until you have new fluid coming out of that caliper.
- Top off the reservoir
- Bleed your next farthers away (left rear) until you have new fluid coming out. Again, do not let the reservoir go empty.
- Move to the next farthers away (right front) and repeat
- Move to the last caliper (left front) and repeat
- Top off the fluid to be between the low and full lines and you are good

Take it out to that same road you were on before and induce the ABS to see how it feels.

As long as you did not let any air get into the system, you will be good. IF any air gets into the master cylinder or ABS module, then you are going to have to bleed them and there is much more involved with all that.

This is my method, others may do theirs differently. See you at the track.

-Kevin

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brake pad advice for the mustang

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